Wisconsin Manufacturing Plant Changes Rules to Take Away Muslim Prayer Breaks

Majority rule has been the norm since man dropped out of the trees.

How else do you suggest we run the planet?

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
I hear ya.
I'm just saying. I support Religious freedom, But there's work and then there's prayer. A belief in a God that will save their soul is all fine and good. I'm a man of Faith, but I also live and work in the real world.
A job puts food on the table and pays the bills. I'm not singling Islam out. I know Jews, Christians etc that have all come to the understanding to keep that aspect of their lives private as it should be and not bring it to work.

All very reasonable, yes. But I think we both hear the echo chamber targeting brown people once again.
There is always a purpose behind vilifying 'the other'. And it never ends well.

originally posted by: Restricted
Majority rule has been the norm since man dropped out of the trees.

How else do you suggest we run the planet?

If we all truly believed that, then this would actually be a Christian nation. We are still the majority. And yet, and yet ... we have accommodated those of you who want to be secular to the point where we behave like a minority.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

All very reasonable, yes. But I think we both hear the echo chamber targeting brown people once again.
There is always a purpose behind vilifying 'the other'. And it never ends well.

A little racist don't you think? Muslims come in all skin colors.

a reply to: ketsuko

I am not responsible for the hordes who engage in self-guilt to the point of self-destruction.

a reply to: mobiusmale

How do you destroy a country from within? you start by using the countries own laws to do so.

Freedom of religion, give people the right to worship any time and whatever they want.

This is not going to end just here, is going to be accommodations for those that feels their religious needs are been violated.

This is just the beginning, here and there, a bit at a time the end goal is just the same.

Good for Ariens...

They'll have plenty of time to pray now that they are unemployed.

WBAY reports that 53 Somali Muslim employees at Ariens Manufacturing have been informed that they may no longer leave their jobs to pray. Apparently 10 have agreed to the new policy while 43 have opted for the unemployment line. Maybe these Muslims should explore the job market in Somalia. I’m sure there are plenty of openings for sand farmers and pirates.

I have no idea why Muslims are so insistent on infiltrating the Western world when their religion is completely incompatible. Don’t immigrate to a country if your religion forbids you from holding down a normal job. Don’t move somewhere if you can’t assimilate in any way to the culture and customs of the people.

downtrend.com...

a reply to: mobiusmale

Smokers usually have unlimited breaks throughout their shift so how come a 5 minute prayer break, even if it takes up 10 minutes total, is such a problem? Hell, people take bathroom breaks longer than that (ever more so because of smart phones)!

I know an Orthodox Jew who has to bend their job around their religion and their employers work with it.

a reply to: mobiusmale

All you would have to do is ask for that day off because of your religion. Happens all the time.

a reply to: korath

As if employees all over the world don't waste more than 10 minutes of their day talking, reading, watching something, and staring at the clock.

a reply to: Murgatroid


Good lord man, that's such an ignorant post that I assumed it was from Murgatroid...

...oh wait...

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

All very reasonable, yes. But I think we both hear the echo chamber targeting brown people once again.
There is always a purpose behind vilifying 'the other'. And it never ends well.

A little racist don't you think? Muslims come in all skin colors.

Sure. I'm racist. Whatever floats your boat.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: theantediluvian

My point is that an otherwise mundane and commonplace issue (workers upset with a policy change) is being turned into an indictment of a religion because it's Islam

I don't think it's an indictment of Islam. It's more of an indictment of being frequently away from the work station which causes obvious problems in certain businesses.

We're only even discussing this because Islam is involved. The topic isn't Wisconsin Manufacturing Plant Changes Rules to Take Away Two Five Minute Breaks — GO MANAGEMENT GO!

Because a title like that wouldn't get a news article or a forum thread any sort of attention at all. Let's all be perfectly honest in this regard; without the religious angle, nobody would care about any of these events in the least.

How many threads about Muslims and work related issues have there been on ATS in the last 12 months alone? People love to jump in them and prattle on about how the Muslims "won't integrate" because some big box cashier in WTF Cares, Michigan doesn't want to handle pork product. An important difference in this particular case is that when these 53 people took these jobs, the policy was likely permissive of their needs (whether you or I feel they're needs are reasonable) and then without warning, the policy was changed and anyone who complained was told to take a hike if they didn't like it.

Whether or not they have a legally protected right that is being violated, they have a legitimate grievance. Further complicating things and another thing that nobody in this thread seems to be discussing (as far as I've seen anyway) is that the company just had a Christmas lunch party. It's right on the home page of their company website.

​DEC 10, 2015
Ariens Company Employees Celebrate Christmas with Lunch, Ugly Sweaters

​Employees at Ariens Company were treated to a Christmas celebration on Thursday, Dec. 10, as the executive team served a holiday meal in a newly built section of the (not-yet-finished) research and development center.

Multiple employees volunteered to help decorate the new center with Ariens and Gravely products and Christmas garnishes to help spread holiday cheer.

Was that event held while employees were on the clock? How about the decorating? Within a month of the company's "Christmas celebration" they change the policy on allowing two short breaks for Muslim prayer? As somebody with years of management experience, I have to say that's at the very least, extremely poor implementation.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Exactly, why immigrants from other countries that comes to the US running away from oppression, death and chaos mostly from their own theocratic ruled nations, can not embrace the freedoms that Americans enjoy. Then you have to stop and think, it is freedom and our way of live what they seek or if their goal to impose in America the same religious constrains that they are running from.

Things like this makes you wonder, now the company is denying this religious rights under our constitution but wait when the government comes and step in to make sure that their religious freedoms are respected, even if it means accommodation for this practices to a selected group, while the majority is ignored.

a reply to: theantediluvian

At least they were "neutral" in the last part.

From the Ariens family of employees to yours, we wish you a very happy holiday season!

a reply to: marg6043

This is not going to end just here, is going to be accommodations for those that feels their religious needs are been violated.

This is just the beginning, here and there, a bit at a time the end goal is just the same.

Reading these words out of context, one might think you were talking about the rash of "conservative Christians" who wanted to use religious views as a means to discriminate against gay people claiming violation of their Religious liberty and receiving in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations.

a reply to: theantediluvian

At least the supreme court rulings has been in favor of gay people, if it wasn't for their interpretation of law, we will have states ruling on their rights to religious freedoms base on their own interpretations.

Let see if the supreme court will come forward to rule on their interpretation of religious freedoms.

It will be very interesting to hear what they will have to say on the matter.

I can't help but wonder if there were other issues too....like demanding no one can eat a ham sandwich at lunch time in their cafeteria ! Just food for thought....pun intended

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: mobiusmale

Smokers usually have unlimited breaks throughout their shift so how come a 5 minute prayer break, even if it takes up 10 minutes total, is such a problem? Hell, people take bathroom breaks longer than that (ever more so because of smart phones)!

I know an Orthodox Jew who has to bend their job around their religion and their employers work with it.

In most well-run manufacturing concerns, breaks are very regimented (with bells/horns signalling start and stop times...and even "warning" signals that a break is going to end soon). This is particularly critical in line-operations where, if one or more sequential tasks are interrupted because someone/people are not on station, the entire line will quickly back up in both directions.

I cannot imagine a highly organized/automated factory where people can take "unlimited" smoking breaks during their shift.

Most places nowadays frown on people taking extra washroom breaks as well...except in emergencies.

Rules certainly tend to me more lax in office environments, outside work, maintenance and (certain) service jobs...but in a modern plant, there is a lot less wiggle room for unscheduled or excessive stoppages.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Reading these words out of context, one might think you were talking about the rash of "conservative Christians" who wanted to use religious views as a means to discriminate against gay people claiming violation of their Religious liberty and receiving in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations.

Exactly. It's the SAME issue, whether we're talking about Islam or Christianity. And I think it's to be expected in a country that is swaying away from religion and adopting more secular laws and equal treatment under the law for ALL people (which is the way it was meant to be).

There are many stories where Christian people are demanding "special treatment" and some are getting it. They receive accommodations by simply claiming that what they're expected to do is against their religion. This story doesn't surprise me at all... and I'm fully prepared to hear more and more of them, regardless of which religion people belong to.

Thank you, Kim Davis and other supporters of discrimination.

I feel for people who are unable to do the prayer ritual during work hours, but it's not up to an employer to cater to them. If a Christian felt the need to have a 30-minute prayer session in the middle of the morning, the company has no obligation to accommodate him or her. Or 5 minutes.

I get the impression that the suddenness of the decision is partly to blame for most of them leaving the company. If they had had the opportunity to discuss it with management and not felt completely blindsided by the new policy, it may have gone more smoothly, with fewer people leaving.