Would you support social engineering aimed at reforming Islam?

These people have different social cultural backgrounds that are NOT even close to the American cultural values. I'M sorry Muslims and those cultural values have been fighting for thousands of years. IT DOES NOT WORK PEOPLE, GET A GRIP. America is founded by a free will and a strong social value so different than those people. Unless the are willing to change into this environment. You cain't come over here and change the structure of our culture, because you think it is morally wrong. You either like it , or you don't. SO, with that said, GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM , UNLESS YOU WANT TO CHANGE TO THE AMERICAN CULTURAL STANDARDS. How hard is this to comprehend. We will NOT become a society based on laws of IGNORANCE AND DEGREDATION TO ANYONE.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

I assure you I am a hospitality worker with no big think tank bucks. I also find my thought experiment fruitful and revealing. LOL.

Spiritual Eugenics? Where do THESE terms come from? Damn.

I am asking for greater effort at reevaluating both MY OWN and a separate cultures beliefs to find at least here among us a successful exchange between two seemingly opposing cultures.

Excuse me. LOL

This is no different than advocating for the Catholic church to take it easy on birth control and gay people.

THAT is social engineering. Grass roots social engineering and social pressure from a free people to make things that oppose their fundamental beliefs as a DEMOCRATIC society change to reflect THEIR ETHOS. Not any one institution or school of thoughts belief. THEIRS.

This is a conflict of seemingly incompatible cultures. To NOT follow the RULES OF GOD may by current definition be an oxymoron. Either you follow them or not. Its really a simple rule that complicates the hell out of all this.

I am asking for that to be reevaluated by rational humans sharing my home planet. Maybe this can EVOLVE into more than rules, but a better way of living for all.

If this generation can not do what their founders did because they are less worthy than them, then so be it. If not lets move forward together. We will all make compromises. As that becomes less necessary we will be able to build a better world together than our founders and ancestors ever could.

Its time for the next big idea. Religious life, its mysteries and benefits should find its place in the world. It should take itself ALLOT less seriously and focus more on making this little planet live better in COEXISTENCE.

Refusing to reevaluate oneself when confronted by a neighbor, a brother human really, with an issue of conflict is not coexisting. No one has to be convinced or change their mind. It would be nice if that happened for all though as we would all live better and in peace because of it, but there is all the time in the world to figure it out. We just have to survive long enough to see what we find out. Lets all try to make it yeah.

a reply to: tadaman
Social engineering is a dubious sounding term. Religion is more than social. Engineering is a good thing to know if you want to build stuff. Social changes happen, and people do engineer them, but few have honorable motives and the changes aren't always good. Civil rights was good change, but it wasnt engineered, it was fought against until the 70s, and that wasn't about religion it was about racial superiority. But now people want to reform a religion mostly outside the us that you dont belong to under the false assumption that Islam needs reform because the world is at war. Islam didn't start any war. Saudi Arabia and America get along great. Also, Israelis commit act of terror too, but you won't suggest Jewish reform as a thread in a million years. You would fear being called anti Semitic. If you mentioned socially reforming Judaism you would maybe get assassinated. Israeli acts of terror are not even discussed, but they are brutal and not rare at all.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Sorry, but at base, religion is social engineering. It is based on the belief that people are incapable of conducting themselves ethically unless they think that an invisible being is watching their every move. It also fulfills some important psychological functions. If you cannot see why Islam is dysfunctional and responsible for so much suffering in the world, there is not much more to discuss. It is precisely the attitude of denial that is placing Islam's future in jeopardy.

a reply to: tadaman

I would. It needs to change or else we will never have peace. It inspires war mongering.

a reply to: tadaman

Religious freedom is supposed to be the foundation of our country, and political candidates mention supporting MUSLIM based immigration laws. They are testing the waters to see how hard it would be to make a religious based law. Before you know it, the constitution is... the New Constitution of the United Nations of the World and Israel is the capitol of the U.N.E. and we're all worshipping the Beast/new King Solomon, the Jewish Messiah who will restore Solomonic glory with the goyim as their slaves. The HEX- agram or seal of Solomon is a geometric representation of 666 which is/was well known and what John was really referring to when he prophesied about the Beast. We're lead to believe that he was referring to Nero but this is classic misdirection/disinformation as anyone familiar with Israelite strategical tactics knows. They stole a country that they had no legal claim to and no one ever criticizes them because anti semite is a powerful term. Arabs are also Semites but no one is afraid to talk about them negatively. And today's Jews, 80% are Ashkenazi Jews, the biblical Ashkenaz was half Semite at best, and an ancient obscure unimportant character. They actually genetically have no connection to Israel and descend from converted by the state northern modern Turkey near the Caucasus mountains. Which is why they are white, and have black hair. Semitic people are brown desert people. Actual Israelite descendants look like Arabs.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Why am I not surprised that you are attempting to derail the thread with Anti-Israel rhetoric? Israel is not mutilating women in Africa. Israel did not murder cartoonists in Europe. Israel did not rape women in Europe. Own up: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Iran are turning the Levant into a charnel house and the poor people fleeing for their lives have not been prepared to live in the modern world.

a reply to: DJW001
That's an opinion. Religion has more components than maintaining order. It's cultural, philosophical, a way to socialize or excuse to see friends. To call religion social engineering is to talk about a single component. I'm no religious fanatic but it has mystical aspects that people find comforting, not every religions person is subject to social engineering. Sometimes it's just fun. Baseball could be considered social engineering too. It distracts people so they don't bother the government. Each religion governs itself.

a reply to: DJW001

Israel has done as much #ed up # as Islam thats a fact. Not anti Israel anti cover up anti propaganda anti land stealing by force anti terror not anti Israel. Israel was mentioned because they did those things. I'm not inventing history. Religious reform is necessary for them too I guess because they do as much damage as anyone terror wise its just taboo to talk about it.

a reply to: DJW001
Israel has murdered plenty of Arab women and children in Palestine, they do it all the time. They will bomb civilians with novproblem. America drops bombs from drones on people's neighborhood every day and civilians die. Every country has bloody hands in this

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

You are illustrating my point perfectly: point your finger at others while ignoring the crimes being committed in the name of Allah. Israel is irrelevant. The Viet Nam War is irrelevant. The Mossadegh Coup is irrelevant, Muslims are killing fellow Muslims in the name of Allah. What are you going to do about?

The Islamic Reformation is in full swing. What do you want the ummah to look like in fifty years when it winds down?

Edit to add: After your last few posts it's obvious who the hater on this thread is.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Religious reform is necessary for them too I guess because they do as much damage as anyone terror wise its just taboo to talk about it.

Israel is a secular state. The Likud Party can be removed from power through elections when the voters come to their senses. Political Islam, on the other hand, is specifically religious in nature. Can you see the difference?

a reply to: DJW001

You make no sense this whole crimes being committed fot allah is more propaganda. Israel is far from irrelevant, that just shows you have a lot to learn. Islam isnt at war. Syris has a civil war financed by America and Russia. Saudi Arabia is our ally and not the cause of the war in the Levant. Or Turkey. America invaded Iraq under false pretense and we can't finish what we started. Isis is a mossad operation and most Muslims hate isis. Muslims and Iraqi christians are helping each other. YOU are ignoring America's fault and blaming a religion of over a billion people for the act of a minority. The epitome of an ignorant American you are. Im a white Muslim from new England and proud of it because I know Islam is against evil. The Koran encourages tolerance over bitter dispute. It's not much different from Christianity, just an improvement on a religion that got derailed by Saul the Pharisee.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Isis is a mossad operation and most Muslims hate isis.

If it is a Mossad operation why are so many European and North African Muslims so eager to join? Could it be that they have not received a proper education in their faith? Is that America's fault? Is that Israel's fault? No, it's Islam's fault for not educating the ummah properly! But by all means, continue to blame everyone else... and kiss Islam goodbye by the end of the century.

a reply to: DJW001
Not every or even most countries are governed by Islam any more than we are by the ten commandments. Sovereign nations have a right to self government and people rebel against corrupt leaders all the time. If your so caring go over there and tell them to straighten out there act. You think theres this one giant univeral form of Islam that governs itself by the Koran? Islam is as diverse as chritianity, the middle east is as diverse as America. Bitch about Russia invading countries left and right. Islam is not the problem, America left Iraq in chaos over a lie. A #ing lie caused this problem and it was our lie.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Islam is superior to Christianity in every way

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Islam is superior to Christianity in every way

They are both dangerous superstitions. Nevertheless, I respect the right of people to choose to believe in them.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Islam is superior to Christianity in every way

That's quite false. Ask any gay or a apostate.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

If your so caring go over there and tell them to straighten out there act.

Have you been paying no attention whatsoever? That is not my responsibility. That is not America's responsibility. That is not Russia's responsibility. That's the ummah's responsibility. You do know what that word means, I hope.

You think theres this one giant univeral form of Islam that governs itself by the Koran?

Absolutely not! The problem is that there are several branches trying to make that happen... and that's why they are killing each other.

Islam is as diverse as chritianity, the middle east is as diverse as America.

And that's the problem: there can only be one word of God. Anyone who does not agree with your understanding of that Word must be corrected... or killed.