God can even save demons!

God, The Source of Life, is Love.

All Life was once Pure (One with The Love of God) but then some Beings chose to leave their Pure nature and become fallen from Grace (human and even some angels).

If God saves humanity who was Pure and One with The Love of God but chose to become fallen, then God saves demons, too because God is impartial.

Here is one testimony of Light (Love) overcoming darkness (fear/anger):




The Light of Love will shine and overcome all darkness.

Love never fails.

"Demons" are just human qualities such as hate and greed, "angels" are just human qualities such as love and empathy.

There is no such thing as an entity called a demon unless you're talking about a person who has allowed the qualities of hate and greed to take over their life. You cannot "save" something that has no true existence outside of the mind, you can only suppress it and eventually make it go away.

a reply to: arpgme

Just because certain angels rebelled against god did not make all angels 'fallen'.

I see no reason that the sins of eve would result in humanity having the state of fallen.

a reply to: arpgme

I understand and agree with your general idea, but I think the angels are the ones who fell from grace first to purposely corrupt humans since we didn't know anything and all the forbidden knowledge was taught to us.

God loves all his creations, but you have to know your role. You are not God and you must serve him by serving his creations. Only He can judge. We must return consciously to our original state by choice.

Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

what is the definition of "pure" in this context, (i.e. pre-fall)?

what was the motivation to become impure and "fall from grace"? doesn't "purity" mean "perfection" in this context, (i.e. perfectly pure and unable to fall)? does the fact that something can fall out of grace not prove that it wasn't pure in the first place?

since darkness is simply the absence of light, in what conceivable way could light ever not "overcome darkness"?

how does an absence of light equate to the implied opposite of light? is a fishbowl without fish the opposite of the teeming ocean? is an empty garage the opposite of traffic, is an empty field the opposite of a city, etc?

how does love equate to light, and fear/anger equate to darkness, when they are completely different concepts? (light is photons, love is an emotion; darkness is the absence of photons, fear and anger are completely different and independent emotions, which may coexist, even with love).

by this logic, fear and anger are the absence of love, but both can exist simultaneously with love, so the analogy, (if that's what it is) falls apart..

is this not simply a poetic false dichotomy? is there no spectrum of emotion in human (and i guess, angelic) nature? is it simply a binary, love/not love construct? is there no such thing as a love/hate relationship?

i'm confused..

a reply to: Learningman

We have the choice to be or not.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Hate and Love are not human qualities, any more than TV Shows are The TV Screen.

The TV receives The TV Show and can The TV Show can even be changed by changing channels.

The same is true for Love and hatred. They are two different signals. They are not "human" qualities, they are channeled qualities that even animals and other beings could experienxe

But we all have our view. You see spirit as just human thought, I see it as more.

Life is all around, just because you can't perceive it with your human eyes doesn't mean it isn't there.

Science already proved that there is energy that the human eye doesn't see (x rays, radio waves, wifi, etc.)

a reply to: arpgme

I didn't mean to imply humans are the only ones with those qualities, all forms of life experience them in one way or another but we are the only ones who can (as far as we know) define them, which is why I called them "human" qualities. I think a better term would be "qualities of consciousness".

a reply to: spygeek

what is the definition of "pure" in this context, (i.e. pre-fall)?

Pure = Love

what was the motivation to become impure and "fall from grace"?

Fear and the loss of Hope lead to negative desperate actions.

how does love equate to light, and fear/anger equate to darkness,

Love helps people see Truth, because Love is Truth. Anger creates a false view of reality and motivates violent action.

is there no such thing as a love/hate relationship?

No. It happens in the moment as one or the other.

A person cannot say "I love you" and "I hate you" at the same exact time. In the moment, which each thought and action there is either Love or the lack of Love (fear/anger/hatred).

a reply to: spygeek

First try living in a state of hate all the time, see how long you last.

Light is what our cells use to communicate.

I bet you that in a state of love that light flows much better than when in a state of hate. Your cells are more responsive, regenerate faster, you can handle and manage pain much better. Love can move mountains baby.

Also, from a metaphorical stand point, nothing is hidden in light, which by extension means you are being truthful, that you are not deceiving or crafty in your ways. In darkness, you lead yourself or others with lies and cheats, you block the light, cast shadows.

So you block the light in your mind, body and soul, leaving you in a state of darkness based on what I just told you. Take this scenario for example, tomorrow (no choice tomorrow or you will loose a finger...your thumb) you must speak in front millions of people about the platypus and they will judge you on national television on your body language, orator skills and knowledge, as you step on stage you start stuttering, fumbling with your tongue and your body is just not working properly, your brain refuses to communicate the right information at the right time, your nerves are in a bunch, you are in a state of fear, in darkness. See how this works? This also applies to when you are mad and want vengeance, blinded by hate. When you are jealous, looking to have what you want instead wanting what you have.......

i appreciate the reply, i have more questions.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: spygeek

what is the definition of "pure" in this context, (i.e. pre-fall)?

Pure = Love

so the emotion of love is synonymous with purity? does that mean falling out of love is synonymous with falling from grace?

what was the motivation to become impure and "fall from grace"?

Fear and the loss of Hope lead to negative desperate actions.

but fear is defined as darkness in this context, which cannot exist in the presence of light.. if something has the nature of purity/light/love, fear/darkness can not exist in the first place to cause these negative desperate actions.. also, is hope synonymous with light and love? is a loss of hope the encroachment of darkness? what would cause such an absence of light/love/hope in the first place? (i.e. if "all life was pure", then there can be no darkness to corrupt it).

how does love equate to light, and fear/anger equate to darkness,

Love helps people see Truth, because Love is Truth. Anger creates a false view of reality and motivates violent action.

love is an emotion. it is not truth. you can love someone that is dishonest, you can love something that is based on a lie. this is not a satisfactory answer i am afraid. i asked how emotions can be equated to the presence or absence of photons, and you haven't addressed this. i understand if it's just an overly simple poetic metaphor, but even at that level it fails when used to describe the nature of emotions.

anger is an emotional reaction to some part of reality and while it can distort one's view of reality, it can also be logically rational and justified. if one hates murder and violence, because it is ethically wrong and violent, does that make it a false view that motivates more violence? are we supposed to love every aspect of reality in order to know the truth of it? if so, that is completely illogical.

is there no such thing as a love/hate relationship?

No. It happens in the moment as one or the other.

A person cannot say "I love you" and "I hate you" at the same exact time. In the moment, which each thought and action there is either Love or the lack of Love (fear/anger/hatred).

a person can in fact say and feel such a thing. i hate my partner when she incessantly nags me, but i love her unconditionally at all times, even when she nags, because i know it is because she cares. she herself has infact said this exact phrase to me, "i do and always will love you, but i hate you when you don't call to say you will be home late from work". she clearly simultaneously loves me and wants me home with her, and hates me for not calling at the same time.

how is love=pure=light, anger=fear=darkness not a false dichotomy? you have clearly illustrated with the above comment that you can either love or hate, never both at once, and never at varying degrees. this is simply wrong, as any psychologist will tell you.

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
a reply to: spygeek

First try living in a state of hate all the time, see how long you last.

nobody lives in a "state of hate all the time", it is simply impossible. same goes for living in a state of love "all the time". it is inhuman.

Light is what our cells use to communicate.

I bet you that in a state of love that light flows much better than when in a state of hate. Your cells are more responsive, regenerate faster, you can handle and manage pain much better. Love can move mountains baby.

emotions play a role in cognitive processes, i grant you, but light is not the same thing as love in this case. a person experiencing hate still has a lot of biophotons coursing through their brain, fuelling the hate.. attributing a bio-mechanism such as this an emotional quality is nonsensical.

Also, from a metaphorical stand point, nothing is hidden in light, which by extension means you are being truthful, that you are not deceiving or crafty in your ways. In darkness, you lead yourself or others with lies and cheats, you block the light, cast shadows.

metaphorically speaking, i concede you have a point, but ignorance is also darkness by this definition, and casts shadows just as deep as those of lies and cheats. is ignorance synonymous with hate, or does intent play more of a role in the absence of light. it being willfully ignorant equally or less dark as being hateful?

So you block the light in your mind, body and soul, leaving you in a state of darkness based on what I just told you. Take this scenario for example, tomorrow (no choice tomorrow or you will loose a finger...your thumb) you must speak in front millions of people about the platypus and they will judge you on national television on your body language, orator skills and knowledge, as you step on stage you start stuttering, fumbling with your tongue and your body is just not working properly, your brain refuses to communicate the right information at the right time, your nerves are in a bunch, you are in a state of fear, in darkness. See how this works? This also applies to when you are mad and want vengeance, blinded by hate. When you are jealous, looking to have what you want instead wanting what you have.......

so nervousness creating fear in an instance of being the centre of attention in a brightly lit auditorium is darkness? are not biophotons and other bio-mechanisms responsible for this nervousness? being afraid of speaking in front of an audience is somehow a manifestation of an internal lack of light? is confidence also synonymous with light?

so far i have:
love, purity, confidence, self-esteem = light
and anger, fear, nervousness, anxiety, ignorance = dark

i'm getting even more confused..

a reply to: spygeek

does that mean falling out of love is synonymous with falling from grace?

The Lack of Love is a Lack of Light and Grace.

something has the nature of purity/light/love, fear/darkness can not exist in the first place to cause these negative desperate actions

The impurity is just a lack of Love ("fall"), not a separate force. A being can choose to live through more or less Love.

love is an emotion. it is not truth.

That's a perception. The correct perception of Truth (Seeing through Love) brings the reward of inner-peace.

The reward of Love is Peace, the reward of a lack of Love is suffering.

if one hates murder and violence, because it is ethically wrong and violent, does that make it a false view that motivates more violence?

Yes, which is why war keeps happening. Everyone in the war believes that their side is "good" and that they are justified in killing the other side which they call "bad".

If everyone would just Love and not murder, there would be no wars.

she herself has infact said this exact phrase to me, "i do and always will love you, but i hate you when you don't call to say you will be home late from work".

"But" means there's an exception to the statement (in this case, the Love), therefore the Love and hate are not simultaneous.

Thank you again for replying, I have more questions, I'm trying to wrap my head around this logic..

originally posted by:
arpgme
a reply to: spygeek

does that mean falling out of love is synonymous with falling from grace?

The Lack of Love is a Lack of Light and Grace.

Does this mean that my falling out of love and subsequent breaking up with an old ex girlfriend was due to a lack of love and grace on my part, rather than her sleeping with four of my friends in two weeks? Did her lack of love cause me to fall from grace or am I solely to blame for not being gracious, loving, and forgiving? Did I lack the light to continue to be in love her?

something has the nature of purity/light/love, fear/darkness can not exist in the first place to cause these negative desperate actions

The impurity is just a lack of Love ("fall"), not a separate force. A being can choose to live through more or less Love.

But you said, and i'm directly quoting here: "all life was once pure (one with God's love)". If all life was pure/love, it was literally made of love/light. There was no such thing as not-love, no such thing as darkness..
If all life was literally made of light/love.. darkness did not exist. How can beings made of pure love choose to live through less than love and become dark, if dark did not exist? Where did this less-than-love come from? What caused life that was pure and one with God's love to become not so? Evolution? Did God cheat on them? How did purity become impure? What impurity existed to corrupt this purity if all life was pure?

love is an emotion. it is not truth.

That's a perception. The correct perception of Truth (Seeing through Love) brings the reward of inner-peace.

The reward of Love is Peace, the reward of a lack of Love is suffering.

If you love hitler, the reward is not peace. If you love a strictly literal interpretation of the bible, the reward is in fact suffering. Truth exists independent of love. Unless love has some other meaning I am not aware of, the object of your love dictates the reward, not the act of love itself..

if one hates murder and violence, because it is ethically wrong and violent, does that make it a false view that motivates more violence?

Yes, which is why war keeps happening. Everyone in the war believes that their side is "good" and that they are justified in killing the other side which they call "bad".

If everyone would just Love and not murder, there would be no wars.

If everyone hated violence and murder, there would be no wars either. Is hating violence an act of love? Does hatred of hate itself become love?

she herself has infact said this exact phrase to me, "i do and always will love you, but i hate you when you don't call to say you will be home late from work".

"But" means there's an exception to the statement (in this case, the Love), therefore the Love and hate are not simultaneous.

But it was simultaneous. She didn't stop loving me because I didn't call, (how shallow and fickle would love be if that was true?), she still hated me for it nonetheless. Conflicting emotions can exist simultaneously, and to deny this is to deny a significant aspect of human nature.

"But" is not necessarily an exception. It is a qualifier of contradiction coexisting within an example. "I have a blue car but parts of it are primer grey" doesn't make the car not-blue, similarly "I love you unconditionally but I hate you when you don't call" doesn't make me not-loved when I don't call.

a reply to: spygeek

Does this mean that my falling out of love and subsequent breaking up with an old ex girlfriend was due to a lack of love and grace on my part, rather than her sleeping with four of my friends in two weeks?

There's a difference between Love and romance. You can Love someone even without being in a sexual/romantic relationship with them.

If all life was literally made of light/love.. darkness did not exist. How can beings made of pure love choose to live through less than love and become dark, if dark did not exist?

The same way a person can create silence by lowering the volume of a TV.

the object of your love dictates the reward, not the act of love itself..

Love transform the object, and transformation is the reward.

Is hating violence an act of love?

No, but promoting Love which will reduce violence is.

"But" is not necessarily an exception. It is a qualifier of contradiction coexisting within an example. "I have a blue car but parts of it are primer grey" doesn't make the car not-blue,

It makes the car not-blue in the parts that are grey.

similarly "I love you unconditionally but I hate you when you don't call" doesn't make me not-loved when I don't call.

But that is a condition, she loves you but hates you when you don't call.

Not calling is the condition.


That condition shows the situation of hating instead of loving.

A person could angrily yell, "But don't you know I love you!!!!?" , but in that moment they are expressing anger not love.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: spygeek

Does this mean that my falling out of love and subsequent breaking up with an old ex girlfriend was due to a lack of love and grace on my part, rather than her sleeping with four of my friends in two weeks?

There's a difference between Love and romance. You can Love someone even without being in a sexual/romantic relationship with them.

Are you saying I never in fact loved this woman? I was preparing to propose to her, I loved her. The fact we were in a romantic relationship does not negate that.. please answer the original question.

If all life was literally made of light/love.. darkness did not exist. How can beings made of pure love choose to live through less than love and become dark, if dark did not exist?

The same way a person can create silence by lowering the volume of a TV.

Did these beings of pure love/light create darkness by lowering their level of light? Is this what you are saying? Why did they do that?

the object of your love dictates the reward, not the act of love itself..

Love transform the object, and transformation is the reward.

If I love hitler, he is transformed? What is this nonsense? Love can transform it's subject into something else? Seriously?

Is hating violence an act of love?

No, but promoting Love which will reduce violence is.

Does not promoting hate of violence produce the same result?

"But" is not necessarily an exception. It is a qualifier of contradiction coexisting within an example. "I have a blue car but parts of it are primer grey" doesn't make the car not-blue,

It makes the car not-blue in the parts that are grey.

True, but it would still be the overall truth that the car is blue. The fact it has a patch of primer doesn't make it completely not-blue. The factory blue paintwork and the grey primer exist simultaneously, which is my point.

similarly "I love you unconditionally but I hate you when you don't call" doesn't make me not-loved when I don't call.

But that is a condition, she loves you but hates you when you don't call.

Not calling is the condition.


That condition shows the situation of hating instead of loving.

A person could angrily yell, "But don't you know I love you!!!!?" , but in that moment they are expressing anger not love.

She still loves me when I don't call. In fact it is this love that causes the hate of me not calling. Hate and love can and do occur simultaneously.

If someone yells "but don't you know I love you?!" They are expressing both love and frustration (possibly anger) simultaneously. Frustration born out of love is still a symptom of love.

Ask any pathologically helpless romantic, and they will tell you, the reward of love is often considerable pain.

Emotions are not black and white. Fear and anger are not the opposite of love. Emotions are a spectrum, so are ideas, beliefs, and faith.

There are no absolutes, and to assert that there are only opposing mutually exclusive absolutes with no grey area in between is to present the logical fallacy of a false dichotomy. Love=light and fear=dark is not an apt metaphor or analogy for something as complex as human emotion.

It's easy to say love is light and truth but in reality it does not logically hold water.

a reply to: spygeek

Angrily yelling at someone is anger not Love.

but it would still be the overall truth that the car is blue. The fact it has a patch of primer doesn't make it completely not-blue. The factory blue paintwork and the grey primer exist simultaneously, which is my point

Yes, they both exist but the part that is gray is not blue. Either one or the other is there.

Your girlfriend has hate instead of Love when you don't call.

There's either one or the other.

a reply to: arpgme

I respectfully disagree with your concept of mutually exclusive emotions, I don't see us reconciling our views..

Thanks for the replies.

a reply to: arpgme

If God saves humanity who was Pure and One with The Love of God but chose to become fallen, then God saves demons, too because God is impartial.

No,God will not save demons according to the book of Enoch. Demons are the spirits of the off spring of the Giants, Nephilym and Elioud races. These races were not from the Adamic race and have already been judged. They now await their punishment in the last day. God is not impartial in unrepenting sins against Him. He is considered impartial in His judgments and shows no favor to any particular people or person with out repenting.

a reply to: Seede

No, God will not save demons according to the book of Enoch.

According to "the book of enoch", not according to The Love of God.