Billy Corgan Says Facebook is Creating a Generation of Narcissists

This article (\//\ SOURCE //\//), from January 6, 2016, concerns a favorite artist of mine: Billy Corgan. I really applaud his stance and I felt the need to share it with the good people of ATS.

Now, I know I've seen a lot of threads talking about how Facebook is creating a bunch of morons--and, me being a user of FB, myself--I have noticed this issue growing.

"We’ve already created a generation of narcissists, that ship has sailed. Look no further than trying to have a conversation with a millenial to know what I’m talking about…”

But it's not just the millenials. I know that the older generation always loves to blame the younger generation (think: The Destroyers by Graham Greene) for destroying what they had worked so hard to build--and therefore, it is incorrect to blame any one age group or type of person for this phenomena.

I have personally been subject to attacks by men and women far older than myself. Always for nothing more than me deciding to post an intelligent comment (that isn't meant to be controversial--merely helpful and informative). I admit that I tend to be a bit of a know-it-all sometimes, and I know that that's annoying, but it seems like people have this growing hatred for anything intelligent. And, absurdly, these idiots in question have the audacity to call the perpetrator of intelligent discourse, "stupid". Now, maybe I'm old-fashioned, but aren't older people not supposed to lower themselves to going all ad hominem on someone who is basically a child compared to them? Especially when I am being very polite and kind in my responses? Like, regardless of if what I said was wrong or not, there's no need to be classless and rude.

And it is the same with younger people as well. But, oddly enough, they're actually easier to get through to (perhaps because I am closer to their age). I have had much worse experiences with people in their late 40's and 50's.

The real problem here: stupidity, obviously. I find that Facebook perpetuates it and makes it into something to be desired--rather than avoided.

"But if people can’t have open conversations…if you have people like Jerry Seinfeld come out and saying, ‘It’s not worth playing at colleges anymore because social justice warriors will be all over you the moment you step out of line. So you’re right about a comedian using Facebook or a musician using Facebook, but I guarantee you the minute they put something up that doesn’t align with the social justice mob mentality, the risk is too high. So you have a watering down of diversity and homogenizing of general messaging. That, as an artist, is death.”

I know a lot of you here on ATS don't like Facebook for various reasons, but honestly--Facebook needs more kind people with brains. If we say that we stand for the denial of ignorance, then why are we restricting that to ATS? We should stand up and go out into social media and be pillars of reason and logic that stand firm against the idiotic narcissism of the growing mass of idiots. Something needs to be done, otherwise there's going to be no place left for us besides places like ATS. Why should intelligent people have to hide? We should use our intelligence to help others. Even if it's mainly casting pearls before swine. It seems morally wrong to simply stand by and allow this problem to grow. It has gone on long enough. We need to take action.

Not doing anything is as bad as being a moron.

If you're intelligent, you have a DUTY to help those less fortunate. What else is intelligence for if not to help others? Of course you're going to be ridiculed, but that's okay! How do we know if it's hopeless unless we first try to win? Come on. With all of the thousands of people on here, I know several hundred at least are exceptionally intelligent. Let's raise hell.

The words of one of rock's great narcissists...

a reply to: KingIcarus

I don't know about that. My aunt worked for him and I guess he's very nice. He strikes me as a rather modest man, actually. Especially for all that he's contributed with his art. But maybe that's just me. However, the character of Billy Corgan isn't really the point here. What he said was true.

We need to be able to have open conversations. We need to deny ignorance. That's the point

originally posted by: rukia
I know a lot of you here on ATS don't like Facebook for various reasons, but honestly--Facebook needs more kind people with brains. If we say that we stand for the denial of ignorance, then why are we restricting that to ATS? We should stand up and go out into social media and be pillars of reason and logic that stand firm against the idiotic narcissism of the growing mass of idiots.

I deleted my FB account years ago and walked away from all the hollowness for a reason -- trying to maintain a degree of realistic, intelligent conversation is not what people on FB want. It is a definite "Look at MEEEEE!" platform, nothing more.
No one truly wants their brain to get a workout, no one truly wants to hone debate skills, or to look at something from the other side of the coin. What people want is instantaneous ego-stroking. In today's world, bragging about & posting Instagram pictures of your breakfast cereal is how that's done, not debating the merits of a political ideology or discussing a sociological idea, etc.

Almost everyone I know is a narcissist.

Across all generations.

We've designed this into our culture of greed and selfishness.

I was mainly joking. I'm sure he's very nice, but he also comes across as very self involved. Great musician though.

Narcissism is the inevitable consequence of anything that makes people think their uninformed opinions carry any weight. Facebook is great for that - as is ATS, I suppose.

Everyone is a narcissist Facebook illumines it to a grand scale

i was saying that about 10 years ago, but sometimes its nice to have a platform to talk with distant relatives and friends. then there are those that feel FB is their entire life...

a reply to: onequestion

Agreed. Terence McKenna (who I admire very much) spoke of this, saying that we are a culture of consumers who need to stop consuming culture and instead need to focus on creating it. This, of course, requires the ability to have open conversations with others. But, with the dumbing down of society that is becoming endemic across the globe, there appears to be little that we can do to help. Which is why I propose taking to the streets of social media to attempt to do what we can to fight the ignorance. Being selfish isn't inspiring at all. That's the biggest issue here, I think.

I mean, of course everyone is a little bit selfish now and again. Sheesh--as an only child, I'm practically a poster-child for selfishness.

Keep in mind, narcissism isn't the same thing as egocentrism--a lot of people get the two confused.

Narcissism:

1. An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
   
2. Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
   
3. A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
   
4. Difficulty with empathy
   
5. Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
   
6. Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
   
7. Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
   
8. Haughty body language
   
9. Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
   
10. Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
    
11. Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
    
12. Pretending to be more important than they really are
    
13. Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
    
14. Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
    
15. Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
    
16. Denial of remorse and gratitude
    

Basically, if it's a narcissist, get ready for loads of transference and a lack of empathy and remorse. They're very similar to sociopaths--and usually, sociopaths are narcissistic.

This is also becoming a major issue on games like League of Legends--and is the reason that I don't play that particular game much anymore. The amount of people exhibiting sociopath tendencies is very frightening to me. It's everywhere, like you said.

a reply to: Cancil

That's not true. I defined what narcissism was above, so I hope that helps. Everyone is not a narcissist. To suggest that is ignorant and is ultimately belittling the issue at hand. Narcissism is a mental illness. It's a personality disorder. Only 5.7% of the population has a personality disorder in both America and Canada--and I'm sure rates are similar elsewhere, but I am too lazy to look them up. And there are 10 types of personality disorders. And those 10 make up that percentage. The math is there.

a reply to: KingIcarus

lol My apologies. I tend to take things a bit too seriously, sometimes. And yes, I absolutely agree.

originally posted by: Cancil
Everyone is a narcissist Facebook illumines it to a grand scale

Speak for yourself.I know I'm not a narcissist.I'm the fool on the hill.

a reply to: Nyiah

I understand your feelings. But there are some people who want to learn and consider new ideas--and I make it a point to connect and be friends with these rare individuals. I think the reason people do the "Look at Me" thing is because they feel so inadequate in their daily lives and need reassurance in the form of hollow 's and circle-jerks.

It's very confusing and sad to watch, that's for sure. I've considered deleting mine, too. But I use it to keep in touch with people I know and to post cool music and art and funny stuff. I try to keep things positive and not about me at all. Mainly I share things that I find interesting. Or things that I drew or something. I don't really put my opinion down on my profile too often, because my opinion doesn't matter too much. Nobody's does. But if pretending that it does makes them feel better about themselves, then I guess that's okay by me. I suppose, understanding where these people might be coming from helps me to deal with the frustration and irritation that I feel from such posts.

That's not to say it doesn't get to me, though. I actually go as far as to lay the smackdown sometimes on some of my more belligerent friends. But luckily, even with them I can enjoy an open conversation without them calling me names or being hurtful. And, well, those that don't like it delete me. Which is upsetting, of course (since I am squishy on the inside despite my bravado), but it's their loss.

People don't like hearing the truth, typically. Especially if they're doing everything they can do to avoid it. But it still needs to be said--because even if they're not ready to listen to it now, that doesn't mean that they won't be ready to someday.

originally posted by: rukia
This article (// SOURCE ////), from January 6, 2016, concerns a favorite artist of mine: Billy Corgan. I really applaud his stance and I felt the need to share it with the good people of ATS.

Now, I know I've seen a lot of threads talking about how Facebook is creating a bunch of morons--and, me being a user of FB, myself--I have noticed this issue growing.

"We’ve already created a generation of narcissists, that ship has sailed. Look no further than trying to have a conversation with a millenial to know what I’m talking about…”

But it's not just the millenials. I know that the older generation always loves to blame the younger generation (think: The Destroyers by Graham Greene) for destroying what they had worked so hard to build--and therefore, it is incorrect to blame any one age group or type of person for this phenomena.

I have personally been subject to attacks by men and women far older than myself. Always for nothing more than me deciding to post an intelligent comment (that isn't meant to be controversial--merely helpful and informative). I admit that I tend to be a bit of a know-it-all sometimes, and I know that that's annoying, but it seems like people have this growing hatred for anything intelligent. And, absurdly, these idiots in question have the audacity to call the perpetrator of intelligent discourse, "stupid". Now, maybe I'm old-fashioned, but aren't older people not supposed to lower themselves to going all ad hominem on someone who is basically a child compared to them? Especially when I am being very polite and kind in my responses? Like, regardless of if what I said was wrong or not, there's no need to be classless and rude.

And it is the same with younger people as well. But, oddly enough, they're actually easier to get through to (perhaps because I am closer to their age). I have had much worse experiences with people in their late 40's and 50's.

The real problem here: stupidity, obviously. I find that Facebook perpetuates it and makes it into something to be desired--rather than avoided.

"But if people can’t have open conversations…if you have people like Jerry Seinfeld come out and saying, ‘It’s not worth playing at colleges anymore because social justice warriors will be all over you the moment you step out of line. So you’re right about a comedian using Facebook or a musician using Facebook, but I guarantee you the minute they put something up that doesn’t align with the social justice mob mentality, the risk is too high. So you have a watering down of diversity and homogenizing of general messaging. That, as an artist, is death.”

I know a lot of you here on ATS don't like Facebook for various reasons, but honestly--Facebook needs more kind people with brains. If we say that we stand for the denial of ignorance, then why are we restricting that to ATS? We should stand up and go out into social media and be pillars of reason and logic that stand firm against the idiotic narcissism of the growing mass of idiots. Something needs to be done, otherwise there's going to be no place left for us besides places like ATS. Why should intelligent people have to hide? We should use our intelligence to help others. Even if it's mainly casting pearls before swine. It seems morally wrong to simply stand by and allow this problem to grow. It has gone on long enough. We need to take action.

Not doing anything is as bad as being a moron.

If you're intelligent, you have a DUTY to help those less fortunate. What else is intelligence for if not to help others? Of course you're going to be ridiculed, but that's okay! How do we know if it's hopeless unless we first try to win? Come on. With all of the thousands of people on here, I know several hundred at least are exceptionally intelligent. Let's raise hell.

Well, I think generations have to change, that is human nature. However I think each generation detects that the following generation is changing it's focus. I have noticed that many millennials do not really know how to work hard, like they are physically and emotionally ill equipped to bust ass or hustle. You ask a millennial to clean a mirror and they will spay a dab on the corner and run the paper over towel once. I do not detect the same in the older generations, and the WWII generation was way more labor friendly. But they sure can type (a huge positive in it's own regard) and they are easily assumed, with a baser sense of humor and an even less harmonically developed ear.

I think the older cats are depressed because millennials invite banal art and culture into the world, it is stifling and soul crushing.

Facebook is a "thing". It can't force you to do anything, or make you into something unless you let it.

A TV can educate you (a documentary) or it can rot your brain. It all depends on how its used. Just as how people say that a gun doesn't kill people on its own, Facebook doesn't create narcissist.

Narcissists are created by idiots who allow themselves to become self-absorbed.

a reply to: yesyesyes

That might come down to lazy/absent parenting and a lack of instilling core values. Not spending enough time with children. Not teaching them to have pride in their work. I went to school with tons of people like this. They had no drive. Perhaps that's because they're starting to realize that the rat race is stupid. But they're going about fighting it in the wrong way. You have to play the game to win, after all.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Isn't an idiot by definition totally self-absorbed to the point of stupidity?

Think of Facebook as being similar to what the Egyptians did by writing on walls. Those hieroglyphs influenced their culture, whether they liked it or not. That's how I think of it, I suppose.

You can ignore something, but it's still going to exist and affect your life indirectly.

Things have influenced people since the world began. It's idolatry, plain and simple. Giving value to something that has no value.

a reply to: rukia

He pretty much refused to let the rest of the Pumpkins play any of the instruments on Siamese Dream. He wanted to do all the instruments himself so it was the way he wanted. LOL

Most people have NO idea how many songs Corgan has actually written for other people. The man is simply one of the greatest songwriters of our generation, and kind of hides under the radar...

a reply to: rukia

in 2006 i dropped facebook it was already being used by employers to spy on its employees and some companies demanded peoples passwords.
Even then I knew it was used to gather information on people to sell to corporations. I just didn't understand the logic in it most of the people in my friends list i wouldn't call a friend and I viewed it as a total waste of time. So I tried to delete it ,however you cant but I hollowed the page and deactivated the account. People asked me about it to this day like I'm some type of self imposed social pariah for not having one. If you would like to learn more about me and my lack of Narcissism star my post

Believing this fu*cking illusion is reality is real is mind bending in itself.

Billy is right, the world is filled with psychopatic retards...

The older generation always blames the younger you know why...? Because the younger generation can't see clearly until they've aged and then, they understand the crap better. Everyone blames the older generation for not understanding when in reality, they're opening their eyes for the very first f*ing time and thus suddenly 'seeing' for the first time what crap they were fed for the first 40 some odd years of their lives. DING. awake yet?

a reply to: rukia

I find it ironic that in decrying a lack of intelligence and general knowledge, Billy has managed to generalise in a FANTASTICALLY huge way, about a demographic which includes some extremely intelligent, and switched on people. Granted, it is much easier to find a moron on the internet than a genius, but here's a tip.

If you are looking for the best example of a demographic, you do not look at Facebook, you go and find them at the library, or an independent coffee shop, or outside an embassy of a decidedly shady government, holding a well thought out placard, and chanting a reasonable demand for change.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Seriously. He's so unlike Bono and that's why I love him.

I didn't know that about him! Makes me feel a bit better about being so militant and bossy with people who I have to be grouped with for projects. Growing up, I'd just take charge and do it all (and get the group an A, of course). That lasted until I learned how to divvy up the tasks and keep everyone on task (and when the grade didn't depend on the group as a whole but was only based on one's own contributions). But, if it's a grade based on the group as a whole, then I'm going to be doing everything at the cost of pissing off the group, end of story. Priorities!

I'm a control freak

a reply to: TrueBrit

Right, that's why I said in the OP that I don't think it's right to blame any one person/type of person/demographic because in reality--this is a problem that is everybody's fault. Whether directly or indirectly.

I actually think it's easier to find a genius on the internet than in real life. Most all of the people that I meet in real life aren't geniuses and the ones that are I can count on one hand. I think that I've encountered way more throughout my various adventures on the internet. Especially at a place near and dear to my heart--a certain forum (the first forum I ever joined!) called 667 Dark Avenue.

Because, if you like books, you are already way more intelligent and cool than most people in my eyes.

I'm biased in that way

Here, too. I've seen more than a handful of people who I'd feel comfortable calling genius on ATS.