Designing a Secret Society

Hi,
I was wondering what the folks that use ATS would want in a society if they were to join one. The idea of creating a secret society has been on my mind for several years now. The basic concept would be around the focus of computer security and technology. Something like 2600 or the Chaos Computer Club, except secret and benevolent. It would be a "white hat" (good guy) society that would help society in secret.

Here are some points to consider:
- should there be dues?
- should there be a maximum number of participants? different clubs for different regions or one big club?
- what should the members receive (material things)?
- what should the members learn (technological secrets?)
- how can it benefit society? (charitable work, helping out people, groups, and the world)
- should we meet in person or online (geographical issues)?
- should members know about each other, or should it be uber secret where members don't even know of each other?
- where to recruit members from? (schools, places of worship, social clubs)?
- should there be a common clothing code?
- how to ensure non-repudiation (have it so that people can't pretend to be members and make the organization look bad?)
- should there be a secret gesture to indicate common membership?
- should the society run a business to help bring funds for the purpose of having the society easily pay its bills?
- what to do about criminals infiltrating the group?
- what to do with members that break oaths and go all crazy like?
- group health insurance?
- how to stop penetration into the society? (bug detectors, background checks?)
- plausible denyability
- help getting employment
- what other things would you want if you were to join your dream society? (such as pub nights, outings, tea, or anything else?)
- should it be covert, clandestine, or both (how secret should the society be?)
- suggestions of what not to do
- liability (if the stuff hits the fan)
- should there eventually be a society house (building) or should the meetups change every meeting?
- how should money be handled (by whom, with what permission, so that its not stolen or something like that)
- how to shut down the society if it starts turning evil, gets corrupted, or infiltrated
- how to handle the passing of the society head government when the leader or leaders eventually get old and pass away?

Thanks for your ideas and comments!

originally posted by: kittensandpaws
- what other things would you want if you were to join your dream society? (such as pub nights...

I would join the Secret Society of Baby Seal Clubbers if you offered a regular pub night.

I am easily and simply motivated.

2600... a reference to the woody ?

a reply to: kittensandpaws

Thats silly...how can you create a secret society after you just told 300,000 ATS members around the world about it? Now everyone knows you want to!!!!

My secret society has no secrets. Feel free to join.

Why would you have a secret society that is benevolent?

However, if I were to belong to such a society, I would pattern it after the Technomage of the Babylon 5 Science Fiction Universe.

-dex

I'm against elitism and secret societies as it is pro-narcissism, anti-democratic and anti-egalitarian. Nothing good will ever come out of people that think they are more important, smarter, more logical and better judges of what is good for humanity.

I believe in educating the masses and let the mob vote on everything which is totally the contrary of the world of planned ignorance that we have now BECAUSE of elitists.

Down with corruption, down with secrets, down with secret societies of which their decisions affect people beyond their clubs.

I don't know what there should be but I can almost guarantee that you will have a whole lot of FBI or NSA agents willing to join. Why does it need to be a secret ? And its really not a secret now that you have advertised it so its a mute point anyway. We have enough secrets in our Society as it is from Government to individuals in Mom's basement.

And whitehat or blackhat...entering a computer network that you do not have access too is still illegal whether you have good intentions or bad intentions. Secret Societies generate much more attention today than yesterday simply because the world has changed.

a reply to: kittensandpaws

I tried a few years ago and people basically thought I was crazy.

If you want to give it a shot then best of luck but be prepared to be treated like an outcast; maybe rightfully so since we are trying to distance ourselves.

If you were starting one from scratch, you could do a lot worse than follow the model the big motorcycle clubs use.
If you google MC rules and how to start an MC you'll get some pretty comprehensive sources which detail everything from how to vet members, keep discipline and foster trust among the brothers.

Of course, if you are being secret, it precludes you all wearing a big patch on your backs.

a reply to: kittensandpaws

There already exist several secret societies. But there must be a way to utilize the data being transferred in the air to talk differently.

I'm pretty sure they all start as boys clubs of people with common interests. Eventually opportunity allows for the group to exert influence as a whole. Depending if they are powerful they will make it closed and secretive. And depending how that went the rest of your questions will be answered.

Double post. The ad pop ups are rather discomforting and disturbing.

a reply to: kittensandpaws

My preference is that any society, organisation, or body of people moving as one, be prevented from keeping secrets of any kind, for any reason. Individual privacy is something I support, but humans in large groups tend toward the dangerous and stupid, and should not be given the same dispensation.

originally posted by: kittensandpaws
Hi,
I was wondering what the folks that use ATS would want in a society if they were to join one. The idea of creating a secret society has been on my mind for several years now. The basic concept would be around the focus of computer security and technology. Something like 2600 or the Chaos Computer Club, except secret and benevolent. It would be a "white hat" (good guy) society that would help society in secret.

Here are some points to consider:
- should there be dues?
- should there be a maximum number of participants? different clubs for different regions or one big club?
- what should the members receive (material things)?
- what should the members learn (technological secrets?)
- how can it benefit society? (charitable work, helping out people, groups, and the world)
- should we meet in person or online (geographical issues)?
- should members know about each other, or should it be uber secret where members don't even know of each other?
- where to recruit members from? (schools, places of worship, social clubs)?
- should there be a common clothing code?
- how to ensure non-repudiation (have it so that people can't pretend to be members and make the organization look bad?)
- should there be a secret gesture to indicate common membership?
- should the society run a business to help bring funds for the purpose of having the society easily pay its bills?
- what to do about criminals infiltrating the group?
- what to do with members that break oaths and go all crazy like?
- group health insurance?
- how to stop penetration into the society? (bug detectors, background checks?)
- plausible denyability
- help getting employment
- what other things would you want if you were to join your dream society? (such as pub nights, outings, tea, or anything else?)
- should it be covert, clandestine, or both (how secret should the society be?)
- suggestions of what not to do
- liability (if the stuff hits the fan)
- should there eventually be a society house (building) or should the meetups change every meeting?
- how should money be handled (by whom, with what permission, so that its not stolen or something like that)
- how to shut down the society if it starts turning evil, gets corrupted, or infiltrated
- how to handle the passing of the society head government when the leader or leaders eventually get old and pass away?

Thanks for your ideas and comments!

Very cool concept -

How "secret" can something be if people are allowed in the the secret?

Thank you for all of your comments and suggesions. If you think of anything else please post it. As to the comment that :

And whitehat or blackhat...entering a computer network that you do not have access too is still illegal whether you have good intentions or bad intentions.

Actually, white hat hackers are defined specifically as computer professionals who do no crime at all. They break into computers only when they are paid to do penetration testing and authorized to do it.

Why would you have a secret society that is benevolent?

To do good works without it being in public so that God would reward you himself and not get the accolades of men. Or if you don't believe in God, then to do something that you store up inside of you that makes you feel warm and glad that you helped out. Good for the sake of good and not for people thinking you're "oh such a good person." This is basically stickin' it to The Man by rejecting cultural norms of people doing something good to be observed by others.

My preference is that any society, organisation, or body of people moving as one, be prevented from keeping secrets of any kind, for any reason. Individual privacy is something I support, but humans in large groups tend toward the dangerous and stupid, and should not be given the same dispensation.

That is frightening. It is often very good to keep secrets. Society is founded on people minding their own business and respecting the privacy of others. There was once a man who said "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about." That man was Hitler's propaganda minister, Mr. Paul Joseph Goebbels. Even if you trust your current government that doesn't mean that the next government down the line will respect your human rights, such as privacy, or any rights at all whatsoever.

If anyone else has ideas to contribute please feel free to join in the conversation.

Thanks for everything so far!
Cheers!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

By the thought and sound of a nice pint it seems..

a reply to: kittensandpaws

Individuals should be allowed their personal privacy. Corporations, governments, clubs and other organisations must never be afforded the same freedom. What one man or woman keeps secret can only be harmful to a limited number of people. What secrets are kept by organisations, corporations and governments however, destabilise entire continents, while the identity of those responsible remains shrouded in lies.

You, me, and the milkman...we should have our privacy. The same cannot be said of any group of people unified by purpose, or in the employ of a state.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Corporations, governments, clubs and other organisations must never be afforded the same freedom.

My businesses were all LLC's. Should I have shared my recipes with my competition? Those were certainly secret as far as I am concerned.