Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

a reply to: maplecustom

I am in no way afraid of private ownership in general.
When it comes to education and health, i am very afraid.

When it comes to education and health...

My uncle was a WW2 vet - a tanker who served under Patton, and was fully dependent on the VA - Veteran's Administration. They'd take him in for a week or so to dry him out and then toss him back to the street. He almost died after drinking a bottle of bleach. He did eventually die of liver failure. He suffered from what was then termed, shell-shock; his tank had been hit in battle and he came away never to be the same.

Education? Back in the mid 1990s, my youngest boy was once told to come home and make a list of everything that was in the cupboard and fridge. From there, he was to turn it in to his teacher. I found out as I watched him making the list and he told me the orders he had received from his teacher. I took that list the next day to the school and found out the entire class had been issued this directive by order of the Department of Education so as to gain a better insight of people in our area.

No thanks...

Isn't Obama's presidency a good enough answer to your question????

ALL completely socialist based govts. have fallen into cesspools many US troops died in.

a reply to: redoubt

OOOO I would LOVE to see that order....

a reply to: cavtrooper7

That doesn't make sense. Even our government agencies are socialist constructs. They are funded by our taxes. Even local and state are such as police and fire.

Maybe you meant communist

a reply to: Grimpachi

We are by NO stretch of the imagination ,a socialist society.
We are a republic free to pick and choose by vote what we think works best.
We use socialism in many programs,we always have.
We don't however redistribute wealth ,have a govt run health system(DEAR God trust me NOBODY would want that, I'm in the VA,) nor do we subsidize the average citizen nationally. One is EXPECTED to work here if one wants money to HAVE to earn it.
The system we use is predatory and requires an overhaul I'll OF COURSE give you that, maybe they'll figure it out after the fiat economy chokes and it's rules are annulled.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

You say you're in the VA? As an employee?

If so, could you drop me a private message? I have an important question that I have had NO luck getting answered by mail, email or phone.

Thanks

a reply to: redoubt

Patient.100%

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: redoubt

Patient.100%

Ahhh, gotchya.

Best to you!

Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

Voluntary socialism is fine. Involuntary socialism is not fine.

That's it.

Grimpachi is correct.

The heart of government is the use of force to achieve political aims. Government is inherently socialist, because government has to seek funding for it's activities from those who produce (the tax payer).

All government services are paid for by socialism. You will pay for them, whether you want them or not. Human autonomy goes out the window for authoritarians.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I have been very happy with the VA I go to.

Of course, we are not a purely socialist society, but our country has been a mix of socialism ever since people were taxed for any program. Roads, schools, police, fire, Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines, Coast Guard, FBI, CIA, FDA, EPA, ATF, CDC, Customs and Border Protection, DOC, DOE, USDA, DOT, DOJ just to name a few.

Actually, there are too many to list and IMO we could do without a lot of them, but our nation would certainly collapse without social constructs. At the same time no one wants a communist society either where currency is done away with and people line up at the corner for their rations and the only social class are in forms of military and government ranks, I mean Star Trek seemed great on TV, but such a society would never work.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

Of course, we are not a purely socialist society, but our country has been a mix of socialism ever since people were taxed for any program. Roads, schools, police, fire, Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines, Coast Guard, FBI, CIA, FDA, EPA, ATF, CDC, Customs and Border Protection, DOC, DOE, USDA, DOT, DOJ just to name a few.

Don't forget sewers.

I like sewers

The difference is that people who work for the government are working. They are providing a SERVICE and getting paid for their service. Really no different than working for a private company. Going to the VA is a social service.

originally posted by: Harvin
The difference is that people who work for the government are working. They are providing a SERVICE and getting paid for their service. Really no different than working for a private company. Going to the VA is a social service.

I would not say they are the same.

Government employment wants you to stay employed.

A private company wants you to produce.

a reply to: maplecustom

I dont fear it. I just take the impressions left by failed socialist governments. Pretty much anywhere without lots of public wealth.

I lived in a socialist country for half a decade. The failures are real. When it does work it only does so until the money runs out...which is often.

With real money and a drive in the people to produce, sure. Why not. With fiat money and lazy, flagless self centered "citizens"....no.

I will do for me and those I know are with me, thank you. Yeah yeah I am a jerk. Rather be that than a fool.

Annee, well that is a bit of a gray area and cannot say how this works in other countries. Just often times harder to fire someone due to unions and, for the most part, municipal employees get better representation if unions are involved. Still, in a government job there are supervisors who will write you up, you cannot be habitually late or for fighting etc., pretty much the same for any other job. Also, often times with government positions there is nothing to really produce since you are not making a product. Which is true in private industry as well, like a security guard. My point was that claiming govt. employees and that type of system as socialist is not really accurate...imop. Look at a prosecuting attorney, they work for the government and i cannot see what or why someone would claim that to be socialist.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

That's what a voucher program would do. You do understand that at the price we spend per year to educate a child, most parents could afford most private schools?

Heck, at one point a few years ago the DC Public schools were spending about $22,000/year on each student for one of the worst public educations in the US, and yet Sidwell Friends was about $4,000 to $8,000/year more expensive. You cannot tell me that there was only about $4,000 to $8,000 in difference between the education of Sidwell Friends where most of the DC elites (including Obama) send their kids and the horrific DC public schools where most barely learn to read.

I think the system I'd like to see is one modeled after France (I think?) and maybe some other European countries where the money the country would spend on a kid for the year is sent where the parents choose for the kid to go. Yes, it's a voucher. But the parents can go to any public or private or whatever so long as the school meets some basic standards.

The only reason we do not have this system is that people get up in arms about the whole ... But, you might send you kid to this or that school *I* don't approve of ... type flap. But if all the schools are meeting the basic standards, who cares what else they also learn and how they learn it all?

I'm down with that idea. There are only 2 problems. A. It's never sold well or explained well. It always seems like with a voucher system, the parent's would have out of pocket expenses even when that's not the case. We, as a country, need to do a better job of explaining options. To this day, most citizens don't even know what a charter school is. and..B. With some options there are out of pocket expenses. I'm not kidding when I say I don't have any more disposable income at this point. $4,000 a year is more than I can afford and I'm better off then most people. AT some point in the future with all the ground work I'm laying down with my business, that won't be an issue, but I'm not there yet.

originally posted by: Annee
There's money being thrown at America's public school system?

Where?

Everywhere...it's just poorly managed and yields an appearance of being poor. My property taxes and taxes going to the DoE tell a more accurate story, not to mention all of the levies on the ballot come voting time for local school systems.

Mismanagement is everywhere in government programs, but there are not any that are truly lacking funds available to properly accomplish their intended purpose, and to do it well. I know that many will disagree, and that's fine, as anything like this is open to debate, but I've done a lot of research over the years into mismanagement of public school funds, so I'll trust my own judgment on this one.