Pentagon: 2 U.S. Navy Boats Held by Iran Military

Adrift Without Power

What does not seem to be in dispute is that there are two U.S. Navy vessels and ten U.S. sailors being held in peacetime by a foreign government for violating their territorial waters.

Whatever the reason for this may be, none of them can possibly excuse the incompetence of those who allowed it to happen.

This is not conduct becoming of the finest and most powerful navy in the history of the world.

a reply to: xuenchen

What technology a radio?? I think Iranians have radios. The only thing they would have had is codes and if those sailors did there job thr code book was destroyed before boarding. And even if it wasn't its only good for 24 HRS. These craft are not equipped for secure communications no need for them to be. They operate on short runs and then return to their ship. The only reason they are there is to intercept boats near the fleet if one chooses to ignore the fleets restricted zone and ferry people around the gulf.

It's absolutely ridiculous to assume that the U.S. doesn't have in their possession, a fleet of naval vessels that are impervious to any sort of failure, whatsoever. They must! Must be a false flag, of course.

a reply to: fleabit

It's not that U.S. naval vessels are expected to be free of mechanical failures, it's that a great deal of money and effort is spent on training, supervision and equipment to prevent things like these from happening, and there is simply no excuse for any course of action which results in this outcome.

The only thing worse would be that anyone in the Navy could possibly think otherwise.

Hopefully that's not the case.

originally posted by: Majic
a reply to: fleabit

It's not that U.S. naval vessels are expected to be free of mechanical failures, it's that a great deal of money and effort is spent on training, supervision and equipment to prevent things like these from happening, and there is simply no excuse for any course of action which results in this outcome.

The only thing worse would be that anyone in the Navy could possibly think otherwise.

Hopefully that's not the case.

Having been in the military stuff breaks all thr time that's why they have these people they call mechanics. And there job was to fix the stuff we broke. Even with regular maintainance military vehicles are pushed to the extreme. You wouldn't believe thr things we would do to those poor blackhawks and hummers. And I'm pretty sure the navy is no different and they travel full throttle.

The Law Of The Sea

a reply to: dragonridr

Equipment breaks all the time in the Navy, too, has for over two centuries, and every U.S. Navy crew spends the majority of its time training with its equipment, maintaining it, inspecting it, learning what to do when it fails, and running drills to test their ability to successfully respond when it does.

The sea can be dangerously unpredictable, is brutally unforgiving, cares nothing for excuses, and those who sail upon it remember this or forfeit their lives.

Maintainability is a key element of ship design, provisioning and crew training, and keeping ships seaworthy is one of the most basic and fundamental responsibilities of their commanders. Losing all propulsion can and does happen, but woe unto the commander who lets it happen, because it doesn't happen outside of combat or sea trials unless they blew it somewhere.

While small craft and their captains are not necessarily held to the same standards as aircraft carriers, high standards do and must apply, because people can die (or be captured, apparently) if they don't. But I think focusing on the possible (and so far unconfirmed) suggestion of a breakdown misses a rather long list of other failures that had to occur in order for this fiasco to take place.

Whomever sent them out to be captured screwed up, whether by sending the personnel under their command too close to Iranian waters with inadequate support, failing to train them to avoid entering Iranian waters (these boats come with GPS systems, maps, radar, communications gear and the ability to tow each other), failing to ensure their vessels were seaworthy (for which boat captains bear personal responsibility, but whose chain of command bears responsibility for ensuring they are capable) and quite possibly for worse failures than these, depending on what actually happened versus what's been reported so far.

The story as currently leaking out doesn't square with competent command or seamanship, so the most charitable presumption is that we don't have all the details.

Regardless, the bottom line is that U.S. Navy vessels and sailors are not supposed to be captured. Ever. Letting that happen is a failure to those captured, to the Navy and nation it serves, and is not amenable to a long and successful naval career.

The U.S. should never be put into the disgraceful position of having to beg to get its sailors back. Any commander who would even consider thinking otherwise has no business commanding anyone or anything involving the United States Navy.

originally posted by: IamAbeliever
a reply to: Freeborn

We are awesome. You'd be speaking German right now if not for us.

We are so awesome your communicating on this forum in English

As freeborn said,start a thread on that subject

originally posted by: IamAbeliever
a reply to: Freeborn

We are awesome. You'd be speaking German right now if not for us.

On the other hand, we might have a better government, economy and I'd be driving a Beemer or Merc!

On the matter of the boats and their crews, they strayed, for whatever reason, into Iranian waters and were rightfully detained as a result. All cleared up and released to go on their way. No "hostage situations", no hostility from the Iranians, no sending in Chuck Norris necessary on the American side, no WWIII.

All a bit of a non story really, just a chest puffing exercise for those armchair warriors feeling aggrieved at somebody protecting their territorial waters!

a reply to: ReadLeader

While we whom deny ignorance bicker back and forth about who is in the right and who is not MSM is reporting this...


www.foxnews.com...

So maybe reports of their release are premature. I believe the topic at hand is their captivity and it would seem MSM is reporting they may not be released so quickly after all.

Our military is great, yes. Hence the fact they don't make simple nautical mistakes. Either way... to know what's happening there is not possible we just have media/military news to go by. We are no there.

Have they been released or about to be released and our MSM is trying to hype it up or are the Iranians not so willing to let their prize go so qyickly?

Maybe we should argue less and analyze more propaganda is a powerful tool for all institutions of power.

Just sayin.... yo

a reply to: akira131

There's no "right" way to get your sailors captured, so we definitely know who's wrong, even if the Revolutionary Guard would have captured them in the Pentagon itself, and that's the United States.

Now Iran holds all the cards, and given the extremely long list of legitimate grievances they have with regard to the U.S. -- with this incident now added to them -- they can be expected to play those cards for maximum benefit, as well they should.

Which is just one of many, many reasons why competent commanders don't let their people get captured.

originally posted by: ReadLeader
This is concerning to me, more to follow - what in the world were they thinking, and what will our military make of this...


www.nbcnews.com...

Iranian military forces seized two U.S. Navy boats and are holding them on the Irans Farsi Island in the middle of the Persian Gulf in custody, U.S. officials told NBC News.

Officials said it's unclear whether the 10 American sailors who were aboard one of the small riverine boat had strayed into Iranian territorial waters before they were captured. But

The officials said the Americans were on a training mission when their boat experienced mechanical difficulty and drifted into Iranian-claimed waters and were seized by Iranian Coast guard.

edit on 12-1-2016 by ReadLeader because:

Training mission? yea right, not a spying mission a ? Seems to me the Americans got sprung for spying.

a reply to: Azureblue

Not everything is nefarious on the part of the US, believe it or not. I know, I know, it's the evil US, single handedly responsible for all the world woes. But sometimes, things happen. Things break.

originally posted by: IamAbeliever
a reply to: haman10

Tough talk, however, were the situation to truly escalate, Iran would stand ZERO chance against the US military. Sometimes I truly believe foreigners just don't realize how awesome our military power is.

cute.
Look mate, believe it or not, this feeling of superiority will not get u any where especially when it comes to Iran.

Is US army awesome? Damn straight it is. Is Iran Afghanistan ? Vietnam? Nah. God forbid, in case of a war Iran will strike US mainland. Is that what you really want? I suppose not. You should be afraid of a war as much as i am as innocent blood will inevitably spill
Anyone who has the slightest insight about Iran knows that we simply are the - doesn't give a damn - type. We don't get bullied nor we're scared of anything.

It was our RIGHT to defend our borders hence your sailors were arrested.

Period.

No further discussion is needed here unless you really are so self complacent and proud of yourself that you deem other's measures to defend themselves against your threat as illegitimate and you're so hot-headed that you seek a war

In that case, honestly, bring it on.

a reply to: Majic

A brand new LCS suffered a dual propulsion failure while in transit to its home port. No screw up needed. In 2010 the USS New York suffered a dual bearing failure. You're talking the equivalent of a fishing boat with these craft. They break, no help needed. Sometimes in bad places.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Eh, I wouldn't say "single handedly", probably "67% responsible" is a reasonable estimate.

The 10 US sailors have now been released following the apology received from the U.S.
www.bbc.co.uk...

Dead In The Water

a reply to: Zaphod58

Whenever any U.S. naval vessel loses all propulsion -- whether a nuclear submarine, a common yard boat or the captain's gig -- it is, by definition, a screw-up. It means a failure occurred somewhere along the line, whether in terms of acquisition, inspection, maintenance or operation.

While not necessarily as catastrophic as losing all propulsion would be for an aircraft, it is still a very big deal and not something anyone in the Navy would or should dismiss casually, because it can most definitely cost lives -- or perhaps result in an embarrassing international incident.

For two U.S. naval vessels to "accidentally" enter Iranian waters and be captured is absolutely, unequivocally, irrefutably inexcusable. There is no good reason, because there cannot be.

The size of the vessels is irrelevant. If they were "fishing boats", they shouldn't have been anywhere near Farsi Island in the first place. If we assume there was some compelling reason to order "fishing boats" near a known IRGC naval base, there is still no excuse for putting them there without adequate support. "Adequate support" would explicitly include not letting them get captured.

The U.S Navy has been operating continuously in the Persian Gulf for decades, and it is rightly known as a high-threat environment. Blood has been spilled between the U.S. and Iran in the Gulf -- which Iran has most definitely not forgotten -- and Iran is constantly harassing, testing and probing U.S. defenses as it has since 1979.

With millions of man-hours of experience in the Gulf, including combat experience, the U.S. Navy should know by now exactly what to expect and possesses ample resources to protect its assets and personnel. Yet here we are, discussing the world-headline-grabbing capture by Iran of two U.S. Navy combat vessels and ten U.S. sailors.

Utter incompetence regardless of explanation. There's just no way to get to a situation like this without doing something astonishingly wrong.

Mistakes can and do happen, but incompetence of this kind is incompatible with the Navy I know, which is why I must wonder just what the hell is going on over there. Which may in turn justify invoking the old ATS maxim...

Never attribute to stupidity what can be explained by conspiracy.

a reply to: Majic

So what would you suggest they use to inspect vessels in the area? An Arleigh Burke? Just about anywhere in that area is near Farsi Island, due to the location of the channels and Island. The CB90 is a good platform for sending inspection crews around, but no matter where they are they're near that base.

I've had aircraft that we went over with a fine tooth comb from the end of one trip to the beginning of another go through preflight and engine start with no problem, only to shut the engines down again with a system failure requiring switching to another aircraft. There was nothing missed in the checks, and no way to see it was breaking.

Captivating Possibilities

a reply to: Zaphod58

My point isn't that the wrong kinds of craft are being used, it's that they are apparently being used improperly. Allowing them to enter unfriendly waters and be captured constitutes improper use.

If we buy the dubious explanation that both vessels drifted into the custody of the IRGC Navy due to an engine failure during a "training mission", we must choose from among several premises that are very unflattering:

- That inspection, maintenance and operation of at least one of the vessels was inadequate

- That the operational vessel was unable to tow the disabled vessel away from Iranian waters

- That the operational vessel didn't think to tow the disabled vessel away from Iranian waters

- That both vessels lost all propulsion

- That neither vessel was aware it was near or entering Iranian waters

- That both crews and their chains of command underestimated or were unaware of the risks of entering Iranian waters

- That both vessels lost communication with their chains of command at any point in their journey

- That both vessels were unable to summon adequate support because none was in range

- That both vessels were allowed to conduct training operations dangerously close to a known threat

- That the more than 40 miles of open water between Iran's territorial waters surrounding Farsi Island (an island 62 acres in size) and the nearest coast of Saudi Arabia is too narrow a channel for these 12.5-foot-wide vessels to safely navigate

And in all cases, that the U.S. Navy has apparently failed to learn some extremely important lessons about force protection.

Missing from all possibilities is how U.S. vessels and sailors get captured by Iran without somebody screwing up bigtime.

Is my point.

originally posted by: haman10

What were they were thinking ? probably defending their country . thats what they think . and they don't give a rat's a$$ who has violated their country's territorial integrity , they ACT against the threat .

honestly , they had the right to shoot to kill per international laws and you're lucky that didn't happen . so invite everyone to take a deep breath and view this from Iran's perspective .

If this was a mechanical problem , Iranian officials will release them ASAP . if not , they are here to stay .

"OMG what were they thinking !! how dare they ? "

sorry man , that doesn't work on Iran . pull that on someone else .

Let's be real here, if the roles were reversed, America would probably be in the middle of a nuclear dick-show right about now. But this is ATS, there are so many xenophobes here who jump at any chance to label middle eastern people as violence-loving terrorists, muslims, murderers and rapists.