Obama Town Hall: Obama Rips Gun Control Fiction

a reply to: Agit8dChop

But an automatic machine gun similar to what the army uses?

That big scary AR is nothing like the military uses. They look similar, but it is purely cosmetic. I posted this before and I guess I need to again.




On Topic.....

I have no problems with background checks. Anyone who buys a gun has had to have one for a long time. Here comes the "but".....I said this many times and I can't understand why some just don't get it: Criminals don't obey the law, right? New gun laws will only affect law abiding citizens, not the bad guy with bad intent. There are so many guns on the black market, they don't need to go through background checks. They can and will get a gun, no matter what news laws are written. They don't obey the law now, what makes people think they will obey new ones?

They don't obey the law now, what makes people think they will obey new ones?

Logic flaws.

Since no war on gang violence has been declared in an attempt to stop that large sector of violence, it's mainly about making some people feel good. Neighborhoods can be zone of terror, just don't let a movie theater be one.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Agit8dChop

There are so many guns on the black market, they don't need to go through background checks. They can and will get a gun, no matter what news laws are written. They don't obey the law now, what makes people think they will obey new ones?

This is the best example of the polarization of this topic. No one ever has a valid answer to it. Criminals always had and will continue to have access to illegal guns. The only people impacted will be the law abiding ones. There are probably more people killed through gang violence in a month (with illegal guns ), then killed in mass shootings in the past 2 decades.

I really, really wish that people would stop trying to sell fear under the label “common sense.”

Now I grant you, this has been a very successful fear campaign by the Obama and his propaganda people at CNN. You know it’s successful when people in countries thousands of miles away from the US are peeing their pants with fear and anger over Americans having guns. They can be excused, they may not know any better.

But anyone living in the US over the age of 20 should be able to recognize when the same game plan is being is being executed over and over.

They did it after 9/11. “Oh, no! We were attacked by terrorists! You should be angry and afraid. We should invade Afghanistan! Just don’t question why we are invading Afghanistan when the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Now is not the time for rational thought. We have to do something, anything, even if it has nothing to do with the problem.”

Thanks to that kind of thinking, this country now has a heroin epidemic.

“Oh no! There could be another terrorist attack! You should be angry and afraid! We need this common sense Patriot Act. Don’t question why this Patriot Act was prepared before 9/11, and ignore the fact that nothing in the Patriot Act would have prevented the terrorist attacks on 9/11. We have to do something, anything, even if it has nothing to do with the problem.”

The Patriot Act is still with us, and continually expanded. We now have secret torture prisons on US soil.

“Oh no! Health care costs are out of control! You should be angry and afraid! We need and Affordable Care Act! Don’t question who wrote the bill. Don’t question who read the bill. Don’t question why it doesn’t lower health care costs. Don’t question why health insurance costs rose. Don’t look at the issue with logic and reason, look at it emotionally. Be afraid of health care costs. Have sympathy for others. Have outrage for people that discuss facts. Remember, we have to do something, anything, even if it has nothing to do with the problem.”

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My fellow Americans, there is nothing a tyrannical government likes more than manipulating public opinions through emotional appeals. Stop being suckers. You want to say “common sense” gun control legislation? That sounds great. Let’s use just a little bit of logic here.

The problem, as I understand it, is that we have a lot of criminal gun violence, the type you see in Chicago and other cities across the country. Also, we seem to have a growing problem with mass shootings; schools, movie theaters, public gatherings, etc.

Now tell me, how are “expanded background checks” or anything else that is being proposed going to deal with any of that? Would they have prevented any of the mass shootings from the past two decades? Would they realistically have any effect on inner city crime?

If what you are proposing has no effect on the problem you are supposed to be addressing, how can you call it “common sense?” It makes as much “common sense” to me as trying to ban waffle irons to prevent mail fraud.

If you really have an idea on how to approach the problem of criminal gun violence and mass shootings, let’s hear it. I certainly don’t expect to hear anything from the US government except how we should be afraid of guns (except in government hands), how we should be angry at people who have guns, and how we should have sympathy for the victims of gun crime.

But if all you’ve got to sell is fear, anger, or sympathy, don’t bother calling it “common sense.” Call it what it is, emotional manipulation. I’m not the only one who is a little tired of, “We have to do something, anything, even if it has nothing to do with the problem.”

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

It is interesting that people outside the US would take any stock in the tainted information thrown about by the US new as a money making business sources.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well for one, the coup occurred in 1968...

Actually it occurred earlier.. The first one he was involved in occurred in 1959, which failed. The next occurred in 1963, followed by another in 1966. The 1968 coup was the successful one and even then he didnt come to power until 1979.



However, my point was he rose to power on his own and wasn't placed by the US as you claimed.

Um...

This is how I, and many other gun owners feel........and then y'all keep going on and on about how no one is grabbing our guns, or that we are being "unreasonable"....... and won't compromise....

Right.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Who's a "criminal"?

If the law says you cant bring a firearm into one of the places I listed and a person does its a law violation. If a person is convicted of certain crimes they are prohibited from owning / possessing a firearm. If a person has been adjudicated to having certain mental health issues they are prohibited from owning a gun.

The mass shootings that have occurred have been in locations where the law prohibits weapons - why?

Now what law could be passed to prevent it from happening? Its apparent the current laws on gun control only work when the law is complied with, which means someone intent on breaking the law does not care what the law says.

A guy walks into a mall / school / theater and starts killing people while the very laws in question have just prevented those people from defending themselves. Again the argument I keep seeing is gun control will prevent that from occurring when all evidence to date says otherwise.

Further when those do occur the reaction is to pass more laws that apply to the wrong side of the coin. The blame starts where the reaction is to blame everyone and everything except the person who broke the law in the first place.

If a person starts shooting people then its already to late for law enforcement to act, leaving the individuals who are being shot to defend themselves.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
And for the record, Reagan also supported gun control as Governor of California. How is using him supposed to refute what I said?

No its to demonstrate that holding society accountable for the acts of one person does not work. Individual accountability is whats needed. Its like working a job where 1 employee sucks at his job and instead of the bosses dealing directly with the problem they institute new policies that affect everyone (who were doing theirs jobs correctly) while the person who keeps screwing up is oblivious to the fact he screwed up.

One last thing -
While Reagan supported some forms of gun control he was also surrounded by some of the best trained marksmen in the world.

That secret service protection allows the ability to stop any threats against the first family etc IE a scenario where law enforcement will always be first on scene.

So its ok for a president / Governor / government official to have armed guards solely for what could happen yet its not ok for citizens to have the same mindset / ability when it comes to themselves / their family?

Gun control does not work in the manner the government thinks it does. Gun control does work in the manner suspects / criminals think it does.

Question -
If a government official decides to take in a movie in a normal movie theater, and this person has armed guards, and the law says no firearms in theaters why cant the armed guards wait outside or secure their weapons before entering the theater?

If the gun control laws are so effective then the official should not need protection while taking in a movie. If its safe enough for the average citizen its safe enough for officials.

Yes? No?

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: darkwingduck
a reply to: reldra He came right out and called for gun control, and would not call it what it was. And you have never seen him "not like" the NRA? What planet have you been living on?

This planet. It was a Town hall to discuss gun regulations or controls. That was the purpose, kind of silly if you are just realizing it now.

CNN invited the NRA, they declined. I have never seen Obama say he didn't like the NRA. Can you find that?

The NRA declined because they will not actively participate in dismantling individual liberties.

No they just constantly make up lies to gullible people so they can increase their membership ranks that fill their coffers to overflowing.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop


But an automatic machine gun similar to what the army uses?

Did you just come from a filming of The View? Do you even know how any of this works??

Who is selling "automatic machine guns" to US Citizens?

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Xcathdra

The thing is I don't think the military personnel will even realize they are illegal orders. I don't come to this conclusion without reason.

I have seen a lot of stupid posts in this thread........yours is not stupid!

It is founded in delusion, stupid is a sane person making a bad choice.

You are delusional period!!!

Have you ever served?

I bet not, I bet real money right now you havent.

Because I have, and you are taught a lawful vs an unlawful order, so you know the difference.

"I was just following orders" has not worked once since WW2, ask the Nazi soldiers at the camps....oh thats right, you cant, they all got hung, or shot!!!

That is also taught to US soldiers BTW.

A soldier in the US ARMY dispite those like yourself believing it to be so, are not mindless drones.

They are just like you, they make their own choices, they think for themselves.

originally posted by: macman

originally posted by: Agit8dChop


But an automatic machine gun similar to what the army uses?

Did you just come from a filming of The View? Do you even know how any of this works??

Who is selling "automatic machine guns" to US Citizens?

Did you just come from watching FOX and friends? Because you don't know what you are talking about. There are many places here in the states that sells fully automatic weapons to people as long as they have the proper permits.
Machine Guns For Sale
Class III Full Auto Weapons for Sale
Class 3 Rifles Class 3 Subguns For Sale

a reply to: forkedtongue

Explain Iraq and Afghanistan

Nice to see the same faces come out, i got to page 2 and we already had someone call obama a king and a hitler and caliphate referense.

Under emperor obama lol, 100 millions guns where sold, but but but hes gonna take our guns, hysteria is a beautiful thing to watch when you have a front row seat.

How many months left for emperor obamas caliphate to take your guns away.

Oh and it even gets better you guys get to vote for trump, enjoy 2016 guys its going to be a great one.

a reply to: buster2010

Oh goodie......
So, Mr. Expert, what forms/permits are needed for these?
Are they new or old?
What are the costs associated with these full auto firearms?

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: forkedtongue

Explain Iraq and Afghanistan

Easy enough, people shoot at you, you shoot back....kinda easy to understand really.

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: forkedtongue

Explain Iraq and Afghanistan

Easy enough, people shoot at you, you shoot back....kinda easy to understand really.

Got it, when I go into my neighbor's yard and they start shooting at me I can shoot back.

originally posted by: muse7
...
Gun nuts are amongst the most selfish people in the US. To them, their fantasy of someday stopping a mass shooting is more important to them than preventing lunatics with histories of mental illness from easily buying rifles and handguns

In reality, quite the contrary is true.

None of us "gun nuts" want anything bad to happen to anyone. We believe it is our responsibility to protect ourselves and those around us, if and when necessary. It's your responsibility as well too despite your apparent abhorrence towards firearms; how do you reconcile that fact?

We do not want anyone incapable of the assuming the responsibilities of, and performing the duties required when owning a firearm to have one. None of us are against preventing those who are demonstrably unable to do such from owning a firearm.

We hope, and many also pray, that we're never placed in a position that requires us to use a firearm against another human being. But if any of us are put into that situation, rest assured we won't hesitate and will do our best to protect those around us from harm, even if you happen to be one of those needing protection.

So what's next? Limit ice cream and sugar to only those who are not overweight or diabetic? Only sell culinary knives to licensed chefs? I hear cast iron pans can be deadly, so you need a license and registration for those, right?

In retrospect, "gun nuts" aren't the ones in favor of personal ownership of firearms. Rather, the "nuts" are those against it.

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: forkedtongue

Explain Iraq and Afghanistan

Easy enough, people shoot at you, you shoot back....kinda easy to understand really.

Got it, when I go into my neighbor's yard and they start shooting at me I can shoot back.

More importantly, why are you in your neighbor's yard?

originally posted by: paradoxious

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: forkedtongue

Explain Iraq and Afghanistan

Easy enough, people shoot at you, you shoot back....kinda easy to understand really.

Got it, when I go into my neighbor's yard and they start shooting at me I can shoot back.

More importantly, why are you in your neighbor's yard?

'twas the analogy good sir