This Chinese collapse is going to take awhile...

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: Vector99

I do understand and I dont necessarily disagree.

Consider another segment. Lithium. China all but owns that as a source.

Ace of spades damn you. China moved into Afghanistan asap to mine it...while we "guarded" poppy fields...

I just checked and China is currently third in the world in lithium production. By 2014 numbers.

But their potential to ramp up is significant and they are fast tracking it.

The United States has, you ready,...

...one lithium mine. And they dont disclose numbers. Ranked 8th in the world.

originally posted by: smirkley
To add, people like Soros cant trade without SEC approval. They own that much.

And guess who 'owns' the SEC . . . just sayin'.

a reply to: ketsuko

So basically we all should be paid nothing...then how can we afford anything?

If none of us make enough money to buy anything, won't they have to lower prices?

I have not seen that despite wages being stagnant and inflation rising the past few decades...People really are just buying less, and the companies are getting by selling less by lowering their operating costs.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

What I've seen is that rather than sell less, companies simply target their product as a luxury product and target the top 10% of income earners as they're the only ones who can afford anything.

Ordinary people seem to buy into it too, they like the idea of these mythical wealthy people with an insatiable appetite for consuming anything and everything produced. That's not how reality works though.

a reply to: Vector99

The numbers I posted only include in-country production. And I dont recall China "moving in to mine it". I dont believe that to be the case.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: ketsuko

So basically we all should be paid nothing...then how can we afford anything?

If none of us make enough money to buy anything, won't they have to lower prices?

I have not seen that despite wages being stagnant and inflation rising the past few decades...People really are just buying less, and the companies are getting by selling less by lowering their operating costs.

I thought you opposed absolutist statements?

What Ketsuko is saying is truth. It is impossible to have free trade plus robust (and artificially high) wages plus all the various regulations and restrictions America has and still be viable. Pick one or two and maybe it works, all three? It just doesn't work... as we're seeing with all of America's manufacturing jobs going to greener pastures.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Where did I imply that?

I did imply that your calculation of the economy was overly simplified. It is nowhere near as simple as pay/output.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: ketsuko

So basically we all should be paid nothing...then how can we afford anything?

If none of us make enough money to buy anything, won't they have to lower prices?

I have not seen that despite wages being stagnant and inflation rising the past few decades...People really are just buying less, and the companies are getting by selling less by lowering their operating costs.

I thought you opposed absolutist statements?

What Ketsuko is saying is truth. It is impossible to have free trade plus robust (and artificially high) wages plus all the various regulations and restrictions America has and still be viable. Pick one or two and maybe it works, all three? It just doesn't work... as we're seeing with all of America's manufacturing jobs going to greener pastures.

But when food production fell to about five per cent of the population, the majority of us were then redundant , as historically it was at eighty per cent. So it could be considered that most of the population is making and getting paid for items and services of a non essential category. I.E. Its all B.S. anyway.

We are by definition in full correction mode. But my sentiments are that it wouldnt have happened if it were not for the influence of the still heavily manipulated chinese markets.

China has a few trillion stashed in reserves to prop their markets. And I bet it pains them to use it. The circuit breakers caused instability that flashed everywhere. They pulled them twice, and then put a lock on the switch. This suggests to me the lesson learned is dont go all free floating all at once. It will take years to correct what they did for years.

My takeaway is this. China will stabilize their markets, as well as the worlds markets via revisiting segments of their old school controls untill which time more can be done with less negative market reactions.

A little here and there instead of all at once.

originally posted by: smirkley
We are by definition in full correction mode. But my sentiments are that it wouldnt have happened if it were not for the influence of the still heavily manipulated chinese markets.

China has a few trillion stashed in reserves to prop their markets. And I bet it pains them to use it. The circuit breakers caused instability that flashed everywhere. They pulled them twice, and then put a lock on the switch. This suggests to me the lesson learned is dont go all free floating all at once. It will take years to correct what they did for years.

My takeaway is this. China will stabilize their markets, as well as the worlds markets via revisiting segments of their old school controls untill which time more can be done with less negative market reactions.

A little here and there instead of all at once.

Do you mean by full "correction mode" a global stock market crash?

a reply to: anonentity

Full correction by definition is a 10 percent drop from highs. That is where we are at. A crash needs 20% or more. Not yet. Hang in there. Your dream may come true.

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: anonentity

Full correction by definition is a 10 percent drop from highs. That is where we are at. A crash needs 20% or more. Not yet. Hang in there. Your dream may come true.

We haven't got over the last one yet, how long does this system have to keep repeating itself before some actual system that works for everyone's benefit, gets put in place.

a reply to: anonentity

I honestly don't believe there is any one utopian system.

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: anonentity

I honestly don't believe there is any one utopian system.

You are probably right, but slow train wrecks have the habit of causing extreme changes, we are creating a world where only a few will have the employment to buy an ever increasing array of goods, children will be living with their parents for the foreseeable future. Any system has to add up, this one does not.

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: Vector99

The numbers I posted only include in-country production. And I dont recall China "moving in to mine it". I dont believe that to be the case.

It's "copper mines" but the real motherlode, as you mentioned, is the lithium that will be recovered as well.

a reply to: Vector99

It sounds like the copper mine isnt really going over too well anyways. So I doubt China is making a full resource grab on much of Afghanistan.

But to stay on topic, we do need China for their resources and manufacturing, no different than they need us to buy their stuff too.

There NEVER be a time where the "few" employed are able to buy the so-called ever increasing array of goods. That just doesnt make sense. Why would there be an ever increasing array of goods then, if so few can buy. The ol supply and demand thing you know.

Shanghai index down 5.33% yesterday. Closing in on 52 week low.

It looks like the markets are starting to discount the chinese market. GM suggested that overall the consumer market in china is still healthy and viable. Overall we are seeing less emotional kneejerking, and more trading on the global technicals instead.