Why do people want to call teenagers children?

originally posted by: Profusion
Why do people want to call teenagers children?

Because they are!
Your brain isn't even fully grown until you're about 30, or so!
Because these days, at least in Amerikkka, one remains a child, naturally, into the mid to late twenties!
When we used to live to 30, 15 was middle aged, and well trained to participate in family life and business, now, after high school and a few joints, they are closing in on 30 wondering if they are going to start having to pay mom some rent!!
Finally learned some personal hygiene, got a bit of experience, gaining speed and...
Life truly begins at 40!

Shoot, I support abortion into the 140th trimester! *__-

It is not a 'bad thing' to be a child, perhaps a tweak to the vanity...
It can seem a tad derogatory, especially when we are flush in the middle of our delicate know-it-all immortality!
We're just not yet fully cooked physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally; we still need guidance.

Wait till you hit all of 30 and listen to a teenager explain what life is all about, confidently, loudly... and smile, and think of me, supporting abortions to the 140th trimester.
THEN you'll do the math, and smile... *__-

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Profusion
Why do people want to call teenagers children?

Because they are!
Your brain isn't even fully grown until you're about 30, or so!
Because these days, at least in Amerikkka, one remains a child, naturally, into the mid to late twenties!
When we used to live to 30, 15 was middle aged, and well trained to participate in family life and business, now, after high school and a few joints, they are closing in on 30 wondering if they are going to start having to pay mom some rent!!
Finally learned some personal hygiene, got a bit of experience, gaining speed and...
Life truly begins at 40!

Shoot, I support abortion into the 140th trimester! *__-

It is not a 'bad thing' to be a child, perhaps a tweak to the vanity...
It can seem a tad derogatory, especially when we are flush in the middle of our delicate know-it-all immortality!
We're just not yet fully cooked physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally; we still need guidance.

Wait till you hit all of 30 and listen to a teenager explain what life is all about, confidently, loudly... and smile, and think of me, supporting abortions to the 140th trimester.
THEN you'll do the math, and smile... *__-

The concept of being equal with an adult when you become a teenager is how it should be IMHO.

Of COURSE you would think so.
Only a teenager would say that! *__-
It's PERFECTLY normal!

originally posted by: Profusion
Why do people want to call teenagers children?

Because they are!
Your brain isn't even fully grown until you're about 30, or so!
Because these days, at least in Amerikkka, one remains a child, naturally, into the mid to late twenties!
When we used to live to 30, 15 was middle aged, and well trained to participate in family life and business, now, after high school and a few joints, they are closing in on 30 wondering if they are going to start having to pay mom some rent!!
Finally learned some personal hygiene, got a bit of experience, gaining speed and...
Life truly begins at 40!

Shoot, I support abortion into the 140th trimester! *__-

It is not a 'bad thing' to be a child, perhaps a tweak to the vanity...
It can seem a tad derogatory, especially when we are flush in the middle of our delicate know-it-all immortality!
We're just not yet fully cooked physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally; we still need guidance.

Wait till you hit all of 30 and listen to a teenager explain what life is all about, confidently, loudly... and smile, and think of me, supporting abortions to the 140th trimester.
THEN you'll do the math, and smile... *__-

The concept of being equal with an adult when you become a teenager is how it should be IMHO.

Of COURSE you would think so.
Only a teenager would say that! *__-
It's PERFECTLY normal!

I have 3 kids, 2 of them are still in their teens and they are children. As mature as they are [ and I'm constantly told they are very mature for their age ] they still don't have the experience/judgement to run their own lives. They know bills have to be paid, shopping done and all that, but lie back for a month and let your kids take care of things. See how adult they are then. 3 things will get done. TV bill will get paid, internet will get paid and the food in the fridge is gonna look very different than what's in there now.

You think these teens are ready to run their own lives?

a reply to: Profusion

On the rare occasion a teen is tried as an adult, it's for an extremely heinous crime. You can't base your whole argument on extremes.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Profusion

On the rare occasion a teen is tried as an adult, it's for an extremely heinous crime. You can't base your whole argument on extremes.

I spent some time researching your claim. The best stats I could come up with are below. Assuming 260 workdays in a year, even at the low given below, you're looking at just over 32 cases per workday in the US where a juvenile case was waived into adult criminal court. That's not rare.

It's totally appropriate to base my case on that. If you're going to have a definition of what something is, it must apply to everyone.

Nationwide, it is becoming easier to try juveniles in adult criminal court. Between 1992 and 1997, 44 states and the District of Columbia passed laws making it facilitating the transfer of juveniles to the adult system..[11]

Two states -Vermont and Kansas--provide statutory provisions for trying children as young as 10 years old in adult criminal court.[12]

The number of juvenile cases waived into adult criminal court peaked in 1994 when 11,700 cases were transferred. By 1997, this number was down to 8400.[13]

In 1996, juvenile courts waived jurisdiction over 1% of all formally processed delinquency cases, sending the juvenile offenders involved to adult criminal court.[14]
www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Profusion

On the rare occasion a teen is tried as an adult, it's for an extremely heinous crime. You can't base your whole argument on extremes.

It's a lot less rare than you would think. Most 17 year olds get tried as adults with the excuse there isn't enough time for the juvenile system. Infact a quick search showed me Wisconson just tries 17 year olds as adults regardless. source

Modern society has protracted adolescence out to about age 25. Except for war - then your golden at 18.

a reply to: kosmicjack

I honestly feel 18 is too young for the military. The judicial system should be three-tiered as far as age as well. under 17, 18-25, 26+. All records under 25 should be treated as juvenile records, sealed. By 26 you are plenty old to know exactly what you are doing and the consequences your actions will play in the rest of your life. Before then, I can argue in favor of youth, except in cases of extremities. That is when you should be transferred to adult court. Hell even the NBA and NFL won't take you at 18.

originally posted by: DAVID64
I have 3 kids, 2 of them are still in their teens and they are children. As mature as they are [ and I'm constantly told they are very mature for their age ] they still don't have the experience/judgement to run their own lives. They know bills have to be paid, shopping done and all that, but lie back for a month and let your kids take care of things. See how adult they are then. 3 things will get done. TV bill will get paid, internet will get paid and the food in the fridge is gonna look very different than what's in there now.

You think these teens are ready to run their own lives?

Those kids obviously never saw sleepers. WOW, that is insanely dumb.

I remember the first time I was addressed as a "Young Man"
It made me feel respected and encouraged me.

I use the words child or children but not as a form of address
When addressing another I use their name or use the term/s Young Man /Young Woman ...
Unless I am goofing about and it is understood

Young people are like older people in that they do not like to labelled
As an older person I like to remind myself of what it felt like to be young in a world dominated by older people

a reply to: Profusion

My father was in his forties last I spoke to him. That was when I was eighteen or so, late teens at any rate.

Even when I was five years old, I was more of a man than that useless sack of crap. As far as I know he still behaves like a petulant child, and must be well into his fifties, if not beginning his sixties by now.

Adulthood is a state of mind, not a state of body.

a reply to: Profusion

Why do people call teenagers children?? Work in a retail environment that teenagers like to frequent, and I guarantee that you'll understand why they're still children. They're at an age where they should know better on a lot of things, yet don't seem to care, nor have a lick of empathy(like a child).

I know it's not all teens, but it is a good many of them. I was a downright pain in the arse as a teen, but I can honestly say I had more respect for people and their property/possessions than teens do today. That's a sad thing to say, too, if you knew how bad I was. lol

a reply to: Profusion

It's a terrible lie to tell someone they're a child until they do the wrong thing and then suddenly treat them as an adult. Can't you admit that's unjust?

I never denied it, but that’s an issue concerning a legal definition. Something else again. Are you suggesting there should be a legal category ‘teenagers’? Should 13- and 19-year-olds be treated equally under the law? Is it fair to judge someone’s maturity by their chronological age?

We both agree that the law must make some distinction between an adult and a non-adult. If it can’t be made fair, it should at least be made equal. That is why we use a distinction of age; it’s the best we can do. And by the way, the legal distinction is not between adults and children but adults and minors. A minor could be a child or a teenager; nobody’s fussed.

Concerning your information about the age one stops growing, I don't even see how that applies to whether one is a child or not in the big picture (or even individually).

When your bones stop growing is a pretty good indicator of when nature has decided you’re grown-up enough; you’ll do. It isn’t perfect, but it’s a bit more flexible than a single cutoff age and physical maturity is a reasonably good proxy for intellectual maturity (it had better be, or you’ll have a candidate for the Darwin Awards). I’m not suggesting that it be adopted as a legal definition; it’s my definition.

Society needs a clear definition which is fair to all.

I am glad we both agree on this, though it may not be possible.

Basing it on growth isn't fair.

What would you suggest?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Profusion

It's a terrible lie to tell someone they're a child until they do the wrong thing and then suddenly treat them as an adult. Can't you admit that's unjust?

I never denied it, but that’s an issue concerning a legal definition. Something else again. Are you suggesting there should be a legal category ‘teenagers’? Should 13- and 19-year-olds be treated equally under the law? Is it fair to judge someone’s maturity by their chronological age?

We both agree that the law must make some distinction between an adult and a non-adult. If it can’t be made fair, it should at least be made equal. That is why we use a distinction of age; it’s the best we can do. And by the way, the legal distinction is not between adults and children but adults and minors. A minor could be a child or a teenager; nobody’s fussed.

Concerning your information about the age one stops growing, I don't even see how that applies to whether one is a child or not in the big picture (or even individually).

When your bones stop growing is a pretty good indicator of when nature has decided you’re grown-up enough; you’ll do. It isn’t perfect, but it’s a bit more flexible than a single cutoff age and physical maturity is a reasonably good proxy for intellectual maturity (it had better be, or you’ll have a candidate for the Darwin Awards). I’m not suggesting that it be adopted as a legal definition; it’s my definition.

Society needs a clear definition which is fair to all.

I am glad we both agree on this, though it may not be possible.

Basing it on growth isn't fair.

What would you suggest?

If I were supreme ruler of a country, I would want to follow the "bar mitzvah" concept as I wrote earlier:

originally posted by: Profusion
That's why I'm in agreement with the Jewish "bar mitzvah" concept. If you're expected to have adult responsibilities, you should be treated as an adult. And, you should be recognized as an adult as well. That's only fair.

I don't know why you're against a single cutoff age for everyone. Please consider this:

The bar mitzvah ceremony was developed as a public recognition of a legal and religious status, attained with or without the ritual. In other words, a Jewish boy of 13 years and one day automatically became a bar mitzvah even if no public ceremony took place. While the beginnings of the modern bar mitzvah ceremony appeared as early as the sixth century C.E., it was not until the Middle Ages that a fully developed ritual emerged.
Origins of the Bar/Bat Mitzvah

If it's worked for the Jews for over a thousand years, I don't see how anyone can argue with that kind of success.

That would take the guesswork out of what you see in the United States for example. With each state setting their own age at which someone can be tried as an adult, I would say it's not fair for the nation as a whole. In one US state you can't be tried as an adult until you're 15, in others you can be tried as an adult at 10 years old. That doesn't seem right to me.

My plan would be to adopt the "bar mitzvah" model and make the age one can be tried as an adult 13 years old.

That would be consistent with my personal beliefs and convictions. BTW, I wouldn't tie any of the above to a religion. I just think it's a fair way to approach this problem.

You seem to think that a "single cutoff age" wouldn't work but again, if it's worked for the Jewish people for so long, on what basis could you criticize it?

originally posted by: Profusion


My plan would be to adopt the "bar mitzvah" model and make the age one can be tried as an adult 13 years old.

I'm REALLY glad it's not up to you.

a reply to: Profusion

First, your'e stating your opinion as a fact.

And you are talking into a mirror...

a reply to: Profusion

So I am a little bit disturbed here. Because the Jewish culture from what your telling me is only makings this distinction for the male members. Your argument though infers that it should go equally across the board. Do you then think it would be ok for these same thirteen year olds to be exploited for sexual entertainment in the pornography industry?? Because you do not seem to be making that distinction. A 13 year old is easily manipulated by a grown adult, especially if one is absolutely being told they are adults.

This would be a very sick and disgusting argument to make, and I hope you clarify this position. Because if some grown man attempted to approach my sons or daughter and insists they can make good money as an 'adult' entertainer, I would end up in prison for opening a new smile into their neck.

There are many variables to consider in any attempt to define this. Physical, psychological, emotional, socio-economic and spiritual factors are all relevant.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
a reply to: Profusion

So I am a little bit disturbed here. Because the Jewish culture from what your telling me is only makings this distinction for the male members. Your argument though infers that it should go equally across the board. Do you then think it would be ok for these same thirteen year olds to be exploited for sexual entertainment in the pornography industry?? Because you do not seem to be making that distinction. A 13 year old is easily manipulated by a grown adult, especially if one is absolutely being told they are adults.

This would be a very sick and disgusting argument to make, and I hope you clarify this position. Because if some grown man attempted to approach my sons or daughter and insists they can make good money as an 'adult' entertainer, I would end up in prison for opening a new smile into their neck.

I looked up the following for you:

The Age of Consent in Israel is 16 years old.
www.ageofconsent.net...

You can see that the "bar mitzvah" concept doesn't affect the age of consent in Isreal. I don't see why it would.

In the hypothetical situation I was discussing earlier, the thought of the age of consent wasn't even something I was considering at all.

I'll add that in my hypothetical situation above, just as Israel has done, I would not let the "bar mitzvah" concept have any affect on the age of consent.