Christian Scholar: The Bible is More Violent Than the Koran

a reply to: SprocketUK

I found since our laws have changed and they can not shake their money tins society has gotten much better.
Especially outside Tescos.
I once berated a woman shaking her tin who was ranting on about being saved..

I think most Brits just keep their religion or god belief to themselves.
We don't have it all on TV also like other places.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: SprocketUK

I found since our laws have changed and they can not shake their money tins society has gotten much better.
Especially outside Tescos.
I once berated a woman shaking her tin who was ranting on about being saved..

I think most Brits just keep their religion or god belief to themselves.
We don't have it all on TV also like other places.

That's pretty much it, as a whole I think us Brits are tolerant of any religion that people don't try to ram down other's throats, yet always suspicious of those who have to bang on about why their religion is special.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: 23432

that is what the Mormons say concerning there religion and they are newer than the Islam so why don't we all just become Mormons.

I suppose it's because Mormons are a sect of Christianity too .

My main issue with Christian teachings is ; I can't in all good faith believe in a God who can die.

I am not even going to speculate about the belief that jesus is God's one and only forgotten son .

Bottom line for me is that all the Abrahamic religions are from the same region and same culture .


Moses said to his followers ; don't you dare worship the golden calf and his followers didn't listen .

Jesus said to his followers ; turn the other cheek , give me your poor and his followers didn't listen.

Mohammed said his followers ; don't worship idols and his followers also didn't seem to listen either .


My personal opinion is that all these religions were " sent " to achieve a social order ; all failed bismally .

Conclusion ; Devil is winning as we speak , starving the weak and sacrificing the innocent has peaked .

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: schuyler

Sometimes I wonder if those who attack Christianity on the grounds that the Bible is violent realize that the religion is based on the teachings of the New Testament, not the Old.

It's not convenient for their argument.

I take it then that the ten commandements among all the other things witten in the OT are no longer valid for christians? That certainly does explain a few things in history.
Why the attempts to put up statues displaying them in courthouses and such though?
Also, I'd be very worried about the next deluge... gods agreement not to murder all mankind on a whim again is in the OT after all and therefore null and void, no?

a reply to: gladtobehere

I have never read the Koran but I have read parts of the bible; and from my interpretation you are either devout, a deviant or the devil. I'm sure there would be fundamental flaws in the Koran as well but I'm sure both books teach good virtues. However those virtues can be achieved through common sense and having a good heart-it doesn't take a devout person to give their time at a soup kitchen or donate money to a worthy cause-Any atheist can do good and no deity is driving their good deeds.

Then you have folk who try to sell tickets to heaven i.e televangelists. Those folk are the worst and should never ever be associated with the truly devout as faith is not something that is bought or earned, but should be found.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
When a non-Moslem commits a crime, we dont attribute those acts to their religion. This isnt the case for Moslems. If a crime is committed by a Moslem, we blame the religion as opposed to identifying them by their race or nationality.

That's generally because when non-Muslims commit terrorists acts the motivation tends to be political not religious, but when Muslims commit terrorist acts the motivation tends to be singularly religious.

I hear a lot of PC talk lately how Islam is a religion of peace and no more dangerous than Christianity... folks, these two religions are polar opposites and here's why, but there are some complicated clarifications that need to be made before delving into the merits and faults of both religions.

First let me say that I'm convinced that there are many good and wonderful people that identify themselves as muslim (The key phrase here though is "identify themselves as muslim", because I believe there is a huge difference between many people who identify themselves as muslim and those that actually are muslims based on their adherence to quranic commands and teachings). I first began to realize this when I dated a muslim girl. She was pretty awesome and the complete opposite of what I had expected... but after awhile I began to realize that although she strongly and unashamedly identified herself as muslim.. she didn't have a clue what it meant to follow the quran and only knew the basic pillars of Islam. When I started asking her about the quranic verses where it says to kill infidels and all of that stuff... she was like a dear in headlights and didn't seem to care or want to know more about these verses. This is how I believe most peaceful muslims are. They are "cultural muslims" who are born into it and find it easier to go along with the program out of family and societal acceptance.

Then there are those muslims who appear peaceful in every sense but know exactly what the Quran is all about. These people will appear completely moderate but you will find that they secretly (or maybe even openly) support Islamic domination but may or may not agree with violent tactics to achieve this. Some find that by having tons of children and outbreeding native populations in which they reside, is duty enough to fulfilling the goal laid out in the quran to establish a one world domination, but make no mistake about it... the goal of Islam is to spread until the whole world is one Islamic world.... and the big difference between Islam and Christianity in this regard is the tactics that are considered acceptable. Christianity advocated the spreading of the "good news" through love and acts of charity ONLY, despite what some carrying the banner of Christianity may have done in time's past (Carrying the banner of Christianity does not make you someone who follows the teachings of Christ).. Islam may also use this as a tactic, but it is not the focus. The main tactic is to spread islam through subjugation, dominance, and violence, and there are many verses in the Quran that show this as an "active command" as opposed to some story told in the old testament.

An easy comparison to sum this all up is this; Imagine if there were a bunch of folks today who called themselves Natzis and considered Hitler's book Mein Kampf to be the absolute truth. Now imagine that many of them are genuinely peaceful good people, despite them identifying themselves as Natzis. I would say that many of those people propably are genuinely good folks, but then there are those who actually take the ideals of Natziism very seriously... and we know that if they do... then we know how they must think and would be much more likely to incite violence... this example may seem extreme but if you take your PC hat off you will see that it desribes Islam today... and if you want to keep telling yourself that Islam is a religion of peace and that true muslims are peaceful... I'm sorry but I would argue that you have it exactly backwards and that the exact oppostie is true.

originally posted by: peter vlar

How is Christianity NOT based on the OT when the alleged prophecies about the Messiah, predicting Jesus are in the OT, Jesus is attributed as specifically referencing OT passages in the 4 Gospels (as well as Paul's writings), is he not? Have you read the New Testament? If so, how do you not realize that the entirety of it has it's roots firmly grounded in OT scripture. To claim it is not based in the Old Testament is incredibly naive on your part or rooted entirely in ignorance from not having read the entire NT.

Seriously?

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 22:36-40

a reply to: Motorhead

Correct. Christianity respects the laws of men. Islam doesn't.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: peter vlar

How is Christianity NOT based on the OT when the alleged prophecies about the Messiah, predicting Jesus are in the OT, Jesus is attributed as specifically referencing OT passages in the 4 Gospels (as well as Paul's writings), is he not? Have you read the New Testament? If so, how do you not realize that the entirety of it has it's roots firmly grounded in OT scripture. To claim it is not based in the Old Testament is incredibly naive on your part or rooted entirely in ignorance from not having read the entire NT.

Seriously?
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Matthew 22:36-40

oh yes...quite serious.

•He could match wits with the temple teachers at age 12 (Lk 2:42, 46–47).
•He resisted the devil’s temptations using passages from Deuteronomy (Mt 4:1–11).
•He stumped the Pharisees when it came to who the son of David is (Mt 22:41–46).

He loved quoting Exodus...
•Jesus references the burning bush incident when explaining the resurrection (Ex 3:6; Mt 22:32; Mk 12:26; Lk 20:37).
•He recalls the Ten Commandments when telling a rich man how to enter the kingdom of God (Ex 20:12–16; Mt 19:18–19; Mk 10:19; Lk 18:20).
•He mentions the fifth commandment (honoring parents) when exposing the Pharisees’ and scribes’ hypocrisy (Ex 20:12, 21:17; Mt 15:4; Mk 7:10).
•And of course, the commandments against murder and adultery show up in Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount (Ex 20:12–13; Mt 5:21, 27).
•Jesus quotes the famous “eye for an eye” line right before telling his disciples to turn the other cheek (Ex 21:24; Mt 5:38).

And Isaiah...
•Jesus speaks in parables, fulfilling Isaiah’s prophecy concerning “eyes that do not see” and “ears that do not hear” (Is 6:9–10; Mt 13:14–15; Mk 4:12; Lk 8:10).
•When Jesus turns over the tables in the temple, he references Isaiah’s words on how the house of God was intended to operate (Is 56:7; Mt 21:13; Mk 11:17; Lk 19:46).
•He calls out the Pharisees and scribes for their lip service to God—they honor God with their words, but their hearts are far, far from him (Is 29:13; Mt 15:8–9; Mk 7:6–7).
•He alludes to Isaiah in his parable of the vineyard (Is 5:1; Mt 21:33; Mk 12:1; Lk 20:9).

Deuteronomy was a fan favorite of Jesus too...
•Jesus sums up the law and the prophets with a line from Deuteronomy (and another from Leviticus): love God, and love your neighbor as yourself (Dt 6:5; Mt 22:37; Mk 12:29–33; Lk 10:27).
•The Ten Commandments are in both Exodus and Deuteronomy: Jesus references both books when he cites the commandments.
•Jesus references Deuteronomy when he discusses divorce (Dt 24:1–3; Mt 5:31, 19:7; Mk 10:4).
•He mentions Moses’ rule of witnesses when he outlines church discipline (Dt 19:15; Mt 18:16).
•When Satan tempts Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus responds with passages from Deuteronomy (Dt 6:13, 16, 8:3; Mt 4:4, 7, 10; Lk 4:4, 8, 12).


And let's not forget his favorite book, Psalms with 11 references...
•Jesus outwits the Pharisees with the Psalms on several occasions (Ps 8:2, 110:1; Mt 21:16, 22:44; Mk 12:36, 14:62; Lk 20:42–43).
•He quotes the twenty-second Psalm while dying on the cross: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Ps 22:1; Mt 27:46; Mk 15:34). He then fulfills the thirty-first Psalm by committing his spirit to the Father (31:5; Lk 23:46).
•Jesus is hated without cause, which he says the Psalms foretold (Ps 35:19, 69:4; Jn 15:25).
•He quotes the Psalms when talking about his betrayal (Ps 41:9; Jn 13:18).
•Jesus recalls the manna in the wilderness after feeding a multitude (Ps 78:24; Jn 6:31).
•When the Jews want to stone Jesus for claiming to be God, he responds with a line Psalms (Ps 82:6; Jn 10:34).
•Jesus quotes Psalm 110 when Pilate asks if he is the son of God (Ps 110:1; Mt 26:64).
•He quotes Psalms to the chief priests and elders, calling himself the chief cornerstone (Ps 118:22–23; Matt 21:42; Mk 12:10; Luke 20:17).
•Jesus references Psalms when foretelling Jerusalem’s destruction (Ps 118:26; Matt 23:39; Lk 13:35).


And those are just his favorites. throughout the gospels he references every book of the OT as well as numerous prophets. In all, He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. And the whole Messiah thing, based on OT prophecies. So yes... very serious.
catholic-resources.org...
biblicalstudies.org.uk...
www.christiancourier.com...

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

certain sect/cults of chrsitianity were very violent

The crusades were about the Roman Catholic Pope's desire to have the Holy Land as their capital instead of Rome.

a reply to: peter vlar

He's a Jew talking to other Jews about their shared religion.

What do you expect him to quote? The Bhagavad Gita?

a reply to: NthOther

Im simply pointing out that the OT was the basis for Christs teachings which you seem to deny occurred despite it being rampant throughout the NT. Without the OT, there wouldn't be a Christianity or even the concept of a Messiah.

originally posted by: Motorhead

That's generally because when non-Muslims commit terrorists acts the motivation tends to be political not religious, but when Muslims commit terrorist acts the motivation tends to be singularly religious.

In that case we're doing it backwards because Terrorism is defined as "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

The real reason I think is it's because we always label the outsider as the terrorist but never our own.

Double post

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Motorhead

That's generally because when non-Muslims commit terrorists acts the motivation tends to be political not religious, but when Muslims commit terrorist acts the motivation tends to be singularly religious.

In that case we're doing it backwards because Terrorism is defined as "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

The real reason I think is it's because we always label the outsider as the terrorist but never our own.

We just use a larger, more sophisticated method, as in Bush's Christian Crusade (he did say that). Bombing an entire population.

There's the phenomenon of being able to point fingers at a specific person. Kind of like how everyone gets outraged when someone is beheaded. They pinpoint the focus and identify with a singular person or group.

Few show the same outrage of hundreds of faceless people.

So much more fun when a single Mohammed kills someone, then you can blame all Mohammed's.

a reply to: Annee

Yeah. Here the US drones innocent people into hamburger on a daily basis for Political/Cultural pursuits and nobody dare call that terrorism. Except maybe those being droned but their voices fall of deaf ears. Those who are listening only listen waiting for their turn to speak upon which they reply by calling the victims "Fun sized terrorist."

It's a messed up world we live in.

a reply to: Annee

America...the only country to use a 2 billion dollar plane to drop a $40,000 bomb on a $100 tent.

wow

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Annee

Yeah. Here the US drones innocent people into hamburger on a daily basis for Political/Cultural pursuits and nobody dare call that terrorism. Except maybe those being droned but their voices fall of deaf ears. Those who are listening only listen waiting for their turn to speak upon which they reply by calling the victims "Fun sized terrorist."

It's a messed up world we live in.

Yes, can't so easily point a finger at more sophisticated terrorism.

It's far more reaching and powerful then a husband and wife you can put a face to and say they did it -- that directly affects you emotionally.

Oh, and I'd say the majority of those silently behind sophisticated terrorism coming from the USA claim to be Christian.