So, this is how a Milennial sees a solution to the "Living Wage" issue....

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Apparently the momo in the article flunked basic math.

Let us just say that we are going to give everyone $20,000 and that there are 150,000,000 working class Americans.

That comes out to $3,000,000,000,000 in disbursements that needs to be made yearly with a static population. That is more than 75% of the current Federal budget. The derp is strong.

The Derp is strong with everyone in this thread patting themselves on the backs going "hyuk hyuk look 'em how smart we is, this dumb kid dunn know nothing, he thinks everybody can just take er jobs money and no one has to pay."

That's not how a basic wage works.

And so far a lot of test runs and studies that have been done show that people do more with a basic income, bettering themselves and working towards obtainable goals, rather than being on the brink of poverty constantly without any options for it. But what we see in this thread is the same old, tired jealousy and crab mentality like the corporation that decided to pay it's workers base of 70,000 a year.

Beyond the media, claiming the company was doomed because it is an anathema to the status quo, some of the workers decided to leave because they couldn't handle other people in the company making close to what they made. As if their contributions now were suddenly less appreciated.

But it speaks to a certain psychological element that we see in many aspects of society — lots of people are only happy with success when it means that others around them are worse-off. It’s “crab mentality” at its finest — the view that the world is a zero-sum game, and that instead of everyone being better off, we need to have some losers.

There is a study being done in Germany right now, where people are paid a basic wage, and participants have mostly chosen to better themselves, going back to school, learning new trades, etc, but most do not quit their current jobs. Even though with the basic wage they technically could, instead they use it for bettering the position they are in.

People for the most part currently live pay check to pay check. You see it all the time covered in stories everywhere. And when new initiatives and thought processes are explored, instead of people taking these ideas with open arms you have 'hyuk hyuk these peoples is are dumb, don't they know money has to come from somewhere?? DUH?"

You may as well just beg corporations to crap down your throats.

As production increases, and the need for people was productive workers decreases, the only thing keeping the common man from not needing to exist is... well, nothing. Inequity will surely demand a reduction in population.

e.g. it only takes 1 billion people, in 25 years, to do the work of 2 billion people currently. Automated processes, and machines/robots, pick up the slack.

in 25 years time, if CEOs are earning the money that would have gone to those billion workers, instead of it being passed down the lines, those people will simply cease to exist. And the reduction in population will be done by hard poverty.

a reply to: greencmp

Now there's a thought ... direct barter.

a reply to: boncho

Wonderful. Where is the money coming from?

im one of these scum sucking millenials you all speak of and i'd kill for a 15k a year job but regardless of how hard i look and how many apps i put in i cant even get a call back. so what am i doing wrong? i have a high school education i also have to take care of my mother so college is outta the question for now, and i have a sneaking suspicion that even if i went to college and got a degree id have to move across the country to find a job in the respective field since those kinda jobs dont exist in my small rural area.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Of course! Today people could be starving, just like people of the past. But what I meant was how people communicate, and how you have so many different people cynical about the world in general. Instead of facing facts, people, regardless of their own backgrounds, put themselves in little boxes, then view themselves as "them against the world".

I feel that's very destructive, and only serves to divides. Also, you have a lot of misinformation out there. To me that influences the way a lot of young people understanding of the world. Which results in many people promoting unrealistic solutions to real problems.

Hopefully this clears up what I'm trying to say.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
Star & Flag for F$CKING OFF AT WORK!!

Whereas you calling it F$CKING OFF AT WORK!!....

The kind of coding I do is very mentally draining. I occasionally need to turn my brain off by switching to something completely different (I'd watch Monty Python vids at work if I could) for a minute or two...and then I can refocus on the problem at hand....

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: boncho

Wonderful. Where is the money coming from?

Well in the cited example of one case, the CEO took a pay cut, and by doing that he gave every single person in the company a min. wage of 70,000. In the Dutch city that is currently planning with it, they will do it with taxes, but they will save money as opposed to the old programs.

“In Nijmegen we get £88m to give to people on welfare,” Westerveld said, “but it costs £15m a year for the civil servants running the bureaucracy of the current system. We will save money with a ‘basic income’.”

Link

There are a number of different ways to implement the idea. It is also looked at as 'negative tax' in some scenarios. The idea is that you are spending this money regardless. Instead of keeping people poor, and spending a ton of money on a bloated bureaucracy, the basic wage put the money directly in the pocket of lower wage earners, to help them work on getting into the upper brackets.

It says right in the linked article the purpose is to cut the cost of benefits bureaucracy:

A minimum basic income would allow us to dismantle vast bureaucracies that exist to police welfare recipients, and just cut everyone a check. And it would take a great deal of pressure off the movement to raise the minimum wage, because everyone’s income would have a floor already, meaning even low-paid workers would be less vulnerable to financial disaster

But just keep patting yourselves on the back and making fun of those stupid kids coming up with fancy ideas and stuff. The motto of this website should be 'embrace ignorance' in a lot of threads, too many really.

originally posted by: Rabb420
im one of these scum sucking millenials you all speak of and i'd kill for a 15k a year job but regardless of how hard i look and how many apps i put in i cant even get a call back. so what am i doing wrong? i have a high school education i also have to take care of my mother so college is outta the question for now, and i have a sneaking suspicion that even if i went to college and got a degree id have to move across the country to find a job in the respective field since those kinda jobs dont exist in my small rural area.

Hmmm.

Kinda sounds like there's a number of things here you're not willing to change....

originally posted by: Rabb420
im one of these scum sucking millenials you all speak of and i'd kill for a 15k a year job but regardless of how hard i look and how many apps i put in i cant even get a call back. so what am i doing wrong? i have a high school education i also have to take care of my mother so college is outta the question for now, and i have a sneaking suspicion that even if i went to college and got a degree id have to move across the country to find a job in the respective field since those kinda jobs dont exist in my small rural area.

A $7/hr job would do it.

Unless you are in a state with a minimum wage above that, you should be able to find one.

a reply to: Rabb420

Ahhh ... you just don't get it. According to the OP, hard work and going to school are like a magic wand... instant success! Or... he's just out of touch with reality.

a reply to: boncho



HA! You're funny....

If you're lacking a career...try standup comedian

a reply to: nullafides

lmfao. I love your broad generalization of a HUGE age bracket.

I am 31 so a " millenial " to you.

I also dropped out of HS and received my GED. I went to college for two hours. Fast forward 13 years and I am in a VERY high level IT Position in infrastructure. Yeah I definitely want a " base living wage for everyone " just like all the other young guys do that are in higher IT positions than you. GTFO.

Honestly by the intelligence that stems from your broad generalizations; I assume your one of those 45 year old guys still working in IT Support on the help desk.

a reply to: boncho



Really? CEO pay cuts are going to rustle up $3-7.5 trillion dollars? After you remove the Federal workforce, who is the largest employer in the country, where is the tax money those people pay going to be made up from?

a reply to: nullafides
I take a break and stare out the window, or walk the halls for that purpose. Often I find the answer while driving home or wake up in the middle of the night with the solution.

what exactly am i unwilling to change??? oh you must mean i should just leave my mother to die???

a reply to: boncho

Guess we're patting our backs just as much as you are in your self righteous more intelligent than everybody else commentary.

Oh, wait, that's what you accused everybody else of doing. Surely you aren't doing the exact same thing you're accusing others of?

Pot, this is kettle.

I, for one, am not whinging that people will suddenly quit working and turn in to the Wall-E folks. I can think of dozens of uses for an extra 20 grand a year, not one of which is even remotely gratuitous. But the fact remains that one company is not an entire country, and the money has to come from somewhere. Relying on massive corporate greed to suddenly go away is fanciful.

Save your indignation for somebody else.

You could pay everyone a minimum annual income but it would still result in people living in poverty. First, once inflation kicks in, the would be right back where they started. Broke. Inflation will most certainly happen because you now have a lot of people with money which does nothing but drive up prices.

Second, you cannot control human nature. Some people are just stupid idiots. You give them $20-$30k a year with no strings attached and I guarantee they will blow the money on everything from meth to 24 inch rims for their 10 year old car. Then what are progressives going to do? Start demanding that I take even more of my hard earned money to bail out the losers because they jerked their money away in the first month?

We all make choices with our lives. The sooner you recognize it, the more successful you are likely to be in life. Sometimes the choices we make don't pay off. However, all you can do is man up and play the hand you are dealt. Life is not and has never been fair.

Most of us have to start from the bottom and work our way up so we can give our families opportunities we never had. Sometimes that means working in crappy jobs. Sometimes it means putting in long hours. Sometimes it means delaying gratification.

a reply to: boncho

Two employees hired to do the same job. One sits there and surfs her smart phone most of the day while the other works. You pay them both exactly the same.

Is that fair or right? One is actually working hard at what you hired her to do while the other is slacking off and not doing the job, but you pay them the same.

But hey ... yeah, let's just give everyone the same basic income.

originally posted by: Teddy916
a reply to: Krakatoa

Of course! Today people could be starving, just like people of the past. But what I meant was how people communicate, and how you have so many different people cynical about the world in general. Instead of facing facts, people, regardless of their own backgrounds, put themselves in little boxes, then view themselves as "them against the world".

I feel that's very destructive, and only serves to divides. Also, you have a lot of misinformation out there. To me that influences the way a lot of young people understanding of the world. Which results in many people promoting unrealistic solutions to real problems.

Hopefully this clears up what I'm trying to say.

I think I understand better, but don't want to risk accidentally derailing the thread further.

On-topic, don't get me wrong here, I believe brainstorming ideas is a great thing. However, the process does not stop here, that is the start of the process. The next step is what is going on here, applying the ruler of reality to the ideas. As I see it, the discussions going on here are necessary to apply the realities of economics and scale, as well as feasibility. As part of this process brainstormed ideas that cannot hold up to scrutiny are tossed out.

The fact that some here are taking that a bit personally and as an accusatory or derisive act are, IMO, misunderstanding the process. Is it a case of some of those complaining have not been part of this full process? I don't know, but ot seems that way to me based upon the responses.

When the day ends, an idea must be feasible and work mathematically, and be a leap toward a solution in order to change the status quo.

originally posted by: Edumakated
...I guarantee they will blow the money on everything from meth to 24 inch rims for their 10 year old car.

Wait. Meth and rims are bad?

Looks like I wasted my last commission check...