So, this is how a Milennial sees a solution to the "Living Wage" issue....

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I can't seem to find it, so I'll assume it was adjusted for the dollar strength differences? That is, something costing $1 in Australia would cost $0.70 in America.

Hmm, for our minimum wage to be equitable, the cost of living in the US must be half that of ours. Even less than that if you account for currency values.

In the studies I've seen, your minimum wage is about double ours but your cost of living (atleast on the low end of the spectrum) is only about 10% higher than ours. So the poor in Australia have about 82% more purchasing power.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Aazadan
So you're going to cut all the Social Security recipients down to $15k/yr.? How is that fair in any way?
Oh well, we Boomers knew we'd never see any of that money anyway....we've made other provisions.

It could be phased in, no more Social Security after X date, you just get the basic income instead.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: FriedBabelBroccoli
P.S. The bottom 50% of households earn $35,000 or less. I don't know how much you earn, but earning any less than that were I live requires room mates, no car, cheap processed food (or bulk food stuffs), and very little entertainment (which usually stimulates the local economy). Also, forget about ever affording your own house, maybe you can afford a studio with no running water someday.

In the 80s I had roommates until I was in my 30s when I didn't need them anymore. I have found that process foods are not cheap etc, in my other posts can you list what is needed in cost to live on?


35,000 is about 18 per hour for a 40 hour week. So minus taxes you have about 2,500 per month to live on.

Rent 1000 with roommate 500
Food 400 with roommate 300 or less
Expendables 400

What other things am I missing?

Insurance
Car/gas/transport
Utilities
clothing
phone
Medicine
Student loans
school fees for kids (Yes they still eat and take money --but add no income.)
opps fund-- there is ALWAYS something that comes up

basically what i get from all the proponents of this, is that they want the govt to appropriate all private assets and companies and then decide who gets what. sounds like a nightmare

a reply to: TheScale

Yeah, actually, that's not what this is supposed to be.

originally posted by: boncho
Where does the tax money need to go when you print money from trees?

What does that even mean? Quantitative easing is a separate issue from a government minimum disbursement.

Look I can build straw man arguments and be absurd too. I listed a few examples of a few different means of implementing a few different programs all under the same banner. Is there a specific one you want to critique?

Sure. Your first, CEO salary's, is not even remotely capable of impacting the trillions of dollars you need to fund such a program. Your second was to advocate implementing something along the lines of what the Original Poster cited.

Why not critique the OP one which puts a living wage as costing less than the current system. Or does the current system have magical money as well?

Do you honestly think all the employees of the Federal government are just going to walk quietly into the night and joblessness? There is a reason the top four grossing counties in the country are the ones surrounding the capital. Do you think they would be happy losing their high paying jobs for some minimum salary?

originally posted by: Aazadan
A basic income is working in Norway, I don't think they get $20,000 though, it's closer to around what $15,000 USD will get you. They also pay a much higher tax rate than we do.

Two things, Norway privatized their energy industry in the 1970's and they also have one of the highest costs of living on the planet.

On the other hand, because of the basic income it ensures that everyone is financially secure enough to work fewer hours, focus on self improvement, and improve their lot in life.

Huh? Do you not think Norway's economy requires growth to survive? Unless they plan on figuring a way to make less people pay more the NEED growth even more than the United States does or their Ponzi-scheme minimum salary will never be sustainable.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Lets call it $4.4 trillion.

Sure. Which is more than the entire budget now and you still need to factor in all other expenses and line items required to keep the country functions. How do we pay for a $6-7 trillion dollar budget?

This would also eliminate the need for welfare spending and social security which come to $1.4 trillion. So what you would be looking at is coming up with about $3 trillion in additional revenue. An increase in federal income taxes could easily cover that.

There is not enough income for you to raise an additional $3 trillion dollars, that would require adding $10-12 trillion dollars in GDP onto what is already the world's largest economy.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Do you even fact check, bro? www.factcheck.org...

$6,000 a year just for rent

$0 for childcare, because you're poor and have the sense to not have a bunch of kids.

$0/mo car payment, because you saved up and bought a decent car for $5k. Insurance is $100/mo.
$200/mo for food.

Add $50/mo for gas and $150/mo for utilities.

$12k/year. So, it turns out minimum wage IS a living wage.... for you, or any other one person. Anything that would make that number increase is the result of a personal decision. I'm not paying for those. If you don't want a cheaper car you can get a Honda that's about 5 years old, and will run for another 10, for about $200/mo. That brings the annual expenses to $14,400. You still have $50/mo to blow on whatever you want if you make $15k! Maybe don't blow it on clothes or beer. Maybe take pursue a math or science degree at your local community college instead?
The people saying, "Well, we should all just love each other and have free room and board, education, food, healthcare." Hmmm, when else in life do you get all of these things? When you live with your parents!!! Millennials want all the benefits of being 16 years old, but still have their own place to live and stuff... because they're totally independent people (they're just dependent on everyone).

Grow up.
If you're not making enough, get another job.
Yes, that might mean working two jobs.
Saying you work 3 jobs isn't impressive if you work 20 hours a week between all of them.
Stop quitting jobs every 3 months!
DON'T HAVE KIDS UNTIL YOU CAN AFFORD TO MULTIPLY YOUR EXPENSES BY TWO

originally posted by: Aazadan
So what you would be looking at is coming up with about $3 trillion in additional revenue. An increase in federal income taxes could easily cover that.

If it is easy do the math...

This is how an old geezer see sees the living wage issue.

"I sacrificed my happiness and my health working a thankless job, so you should have to do that too. Because otherwise, it would mean I'm a fool, and that's not acceptable"

originally posted by: dismanrc
there is ALWAYS something that comes up

Housing 1000
food 400
Insurance 200
Car/gas/transport 400
Utilities 200
clothing 150
phone 50
Medicine 100
Student loans 200
school fees for kids 50

So I have about 2550 per month to survive for a family. Some might be a little high some might be a little low. If we increased that up to 3000 to added 450 into savings on good months to use on bad months that would be about 40k per year with a little more increase to offset taxes too.

With a single wage earner that would be a little over 19 per hour for a 40 hour week. 50 hour week with overtime they could meet 40k at about 15 per hour, if both Dad and Mom worked they would need 10 per hour each not counting age of the kids and type of childcare.

originally posted by: The Cusp

"I sacrificed my happiness and my health working a thankless job, so you should have to do that too. Because otherwise, it would mean I'm a fool, and that's not acceptable"

I'm 55 so I guess I'm an old geezer...hehe The way I see it is how much is a job worth to me for you to do? Lets say I own a small burger place, how much should I pay you to flip burgers? Though you never done it before, it takes me about 2 days to get you going good. I also pay for 1/2 you medical too as a bonus, and pay you for holidays, or 2 time pay for holidays, so how much per hour should I pay you to do this?

This is not a trick question I really want to know what you think.

originally posted by: neveroddoreven99

$6,000 a year just for rent

$0 for childcare, because you're poor and have the sense to not have a bunch of kids.

$0/mo car payment, because you saved up and bought a decent car for $5k. Insurance is $100/mo.
$200/mo for food.

Add $50/mo for gas and $150/mo for utilities.

$12k/year. So, it turns out minimum wage IS a living wage.... for you, or any other one person.

$6000 per year on rent?! Hahaha thats a fantasy for us NYers. I live just outside city limits and my humble one bedroom basement apt is more than double that.

Look, i know the easy answer is to just up and move to somewhere cheaper. But in reality, thats easier said than done. For many of us, all of our family is here. And if you're sharing custody of a child, moving out of state simply isnt an option.

Not excuses, just life.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Doesn't matter how much Trump worked for his money...his dad did... Who the hell are you to say what people deserve?

Comes down to life not being fair again...sorry.

Instead of bailing out the banks and corporations the feed should have gave that money back to the people which in theory would stimulate the economy...but they didn't. Let's say we give homes to several generations of families...guess what they will be the laziest and biggest moochers we will have by far...this is why Sicilian doesn't work. Capitalism keeps you driving for more. People tend not to care when they are just given what they need.

We should just fed everybody while we are at it

You are being ridiculous

None of these people who want 15/hr can answer this.

If 15/hr does become the minimum wage, what happens to those who make 15/hr or less, with a degree or in a skilled field? Will they be on the same level as a 7th grade drop out now? My mother, for example, has been a corrections officer for nearly 20 years and doesn't make 15/hr. So will she be making minimum wage once this happens? Will they double her pay, or give here a 7$+/hr raise? No, they won't. One person said this "In order to continue with competitive wages, all higher level jobs will raise their wages". How and why would businesses raise the pay of existing employees when there isn't any more profit than there was before? It makes no sense. Sure, wages are crap, but you cannot just have people with Degrees who work skilled jobs getting paid minimum wage or just above it. Places will not simply double everyone's pay when there is not more money coming in.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Let's say the minimum wage goes to 15/hr across the board. What happens to people who make 15/hr in a skilled field, or those with a degree who only make that much? Will their bosses automatically raise their pay 7$ when they aren't getting any type of "profit boom"? Please. So my mom, who works as a correctional officer for 20 years who makes 14.95/hr will be on the same level as a 4th grade drop out who takes out the trash at McDonald's? Makes no sense. What about people who make, say 15.50/hr and have been there for a decade, then some idiot starts on day one at 15/hr? Makes no sense. If you think businesses will simply raise everyone's pay to even out with the wage hike, and not raise their prices then you are living in a fantasy world.

Let's be honest, minimum income would not entitle anyone to live, it would merely allow their existence to SURVIVE in this crappy world we reside in.

IF you want to live in this world beyond just survive then unfortunately you must climb the ladder of servitude, surviving, so that someone else can live off your hard work in the hopes that one day maybe you can live off someone else hard work

Most people in this world are stuck on the bottom rung simply because there's no space higher up, or those that are higher up are pushing them back down

Life is not fair, true, but it doesn't mean we cannot make an effort globally to make life fair, it is only unfair because we all allow it to be unfair

Just imagine a world where people are free to follow their dreams because they are not held back because they don't have the time or the money to chase those dreams, imagine how much of a better world we would live in if everybody was happy following their dreams

a reply to: Discotech

Life will always be unfair. There will always be people who want to work harder, make more, live better than other people.

You can't level ambition, work ethics.

They are not the same. They are not equal.

And you can't artificially make that equal.