No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting says Cleveland prosecutor

It appears that police have gone from a some what defensive approach to pure offensive, with any movement by the subject seen as a threat.

Right or wrong, many people are being killed in situations that don't seem to merit it.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
This is just now breaking: the grand jury in Cleveland has declined to return an indictment against the officer who shot and killed Tamir Rice, a 12 year old who had 911 called on him after displaying what "might have been" a gun. 911 was also advised that it might have been a toy, and that Rice might have been a juvenile.

So far all I'm seeing is tweets blowing up, so I'll update with an article as soon as I can find one posted.

This, frankly, surprises me. I thought we would at least see an indictment, but probably not a conviction. I'm left wondering how Cleveland will respond to this.

This is the TRUE black lives matters....

All that BS at colleges is freaken ridiculous when they do not see this and black on black crime. Come on, a cop shot a 12 year old boy because he thought he had a gun and didn't give the boy 1 second to do anything. With their training one would at least go man slaughter charge. What would happen to me if I went out and shot my neighbor and said I thought be was a bad guy, same thing...

a reply to: roadgravel

Not just that, but motions that can easily be argued as compliance with verbal commands.

"Drop the gun!" Okay well if the gun is in the waistband, where else is the person going to reach? Now they're in a situation where complaince is seen as an aggressive act.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Good point. A bit of a Catch-22 being played with your life. The old "the only winning move is to not play".

originally posted by: pcgamer11
Good. We all know what this thug in the making would grow up into anyway. Crime prevention has been served. Don't point perceived weapons at people. Blame the parents too.


Pcg

I do not know what is worst, your posts or the 9 stars you got. He was a 12 year old with a toy and the police shot him in less than a second of getting out of their car...lol you do not see the wrong in that? Well I guess we can all feel safer if the next time a cop pulls you over and plugs a few into you too with zero reason.

They keep calling it a pellet gun and it wasn't one, also millions of boys have air soft including my own kids, so is it OK to just shoot them all without even talking for a freaken second?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes, this is what they (the audio) was stating. I did not use quotes (my bad) - however, It did not look like the weapon was visible immediately when they rolled up, but was shortly thereafter...

The bottom line is that he presented the weapon, the officers did as trained (albeit as sloppy as one may perceive)

It is terrible, but the officers were doing their job and preventing this young man from harming them and/or any one else;

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: roadgravel

Not just that, but motions that can easily be argued as compliance with verbal commands.

"Drop the gun!" Okay well if the gun is in the waistband, where else is the person going to reach? Now they're in a situation where complaince is seen as an aggressive act.

This is the part that always bothered me. The department made statements when this story was first reported that the officer gave the instruction for Tamir to drop the gun 3 times, which that same officer said was in Tamir's waistband. Even if someone believes that the officers gave Tamir enough time to respond to orders, he was following those orders when he was shot.

a reply to: roadgravel

Yep.

To be clear, I don't think the officer should have or would have been found guilty. But I do think there's some negligence on behalf of the agency. That officer was put into an extraordinarily tight corner by everybody from his partner to dispatch. All the Monday morning quarterbacking in the world about what the officer should have said or could have said doesn't for a second change the fact that he was put into a situation that he had literally a split second to react.

But to me, it still remains that he was put into a terrible position by other people.

a reply to: Greven

Video of a large young man pointing an exact replica firearm at passers by who called police?

That video?

Video of the large young man reaching for that same gun as police officers confronted him?

That proof?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes, I can certainly see the difficult position the officer was in. That lack of facts from dispatch seems to be one of those things that made the events branch down a sad path.

This was a tragic accident, nothing more. People trying to turn it into something else are being willfully blind. It isn't the first time something like this has happened.

a reply to: pcgamer11
WTF is wrong with you?..Never mind,I don't want to know..You make Me sick.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Were I riding shotgun in that unit, my partner and I would've had a very serious, strong word filled conversation about why his parking job that put me three feet from a "man with a gun" seemed like a good idea to him.

Even though this is a rather serious topic, I did get a chuckle from that. I can imagine how that conversation would have unfolded.

From what I recall, the officer riding shotgun was a rookie. So, to me, that would make the senior officer more responsible for this situation than the actual shooter.

I have a great deal of respect for your opinion as an active LEO, so I will hold in reserve my original opinion that this was an "assassination." But, I still believe that having a thorough conversation about this event, and others like it, is necessary for both sides to get the proper perspective.

-dex

I remember vividly seeing the whole surveillance video on the news the day this happened. The suspect was in a public park wearing a hoodie and talking on a cell phone. As people would walk by he would point the gun at them sideways in typical thug fashion. He was standing by a covered sitting area standing on a sidewalk. This was going on for quite some time before the police arrived and the events in question unfolded. The next morning the behavior and actions in question were omitted from the news broadcast and it just showed the police driving up and gunning down the suspect. I said to my wife immediately this is going to turn into a race issue and the police are going to be portray as the bad guys here. I am by no means blindly siding with the police here. My first thought was why the hell would a 12 yo think it is ok to do something like this, and where are his parents? Obviously this individual was not responsible enough to be out without proper adult supervision. The police do not know if the gun is real or not, and this was a public park. I think the issue being discussed is the wrong topic. I feel we should be asking why children and parents in today's society think it is ok to idolize thug culture? Why aren't people being taught to respect life and not do something as dumb as point a gun at someone? Real or fake it is taking a laid back attitude toward something very serious. This mindset that criminals were handled unjustly by the police breeds the complacency taking place. All through life you will be held accountable for your actions, good or bad. It is this way of thinking that had gotten us to where we are today. A 12 yo with a gun is just as dangerous as a 40 yo with a gun. This is not a race thing or a police vs citizens issue. This a breakdown of society issue. a reply to: Deny Arrogance

a reply to: AbbaCabba

I referenced some of the same things on another thread... My 7yr old niece knows better than the actions of the 12yr old...

good point 12 or 40 with a gun OR replica is a very bad thing to be in 2015

originally posted by: AbbaCabba
A 12 yo with a gun is just as dangerous as a 40 yo with a gun. This is not a race thing or a police vs citizens issue. This a breakdown of society issue. a reply to: Deny Arrogance

Let me ask you a question... Is having a gun in your hand illegal? Does the 2nd allow you to hold a gun? If a cop comes up on you and you have a gun in your hand does he have the right to shoot you within 1 second when you can not do a thing good or bad with it? Can I walk down many streets with a gun?

Now come forward to a young kid who was not breaking a single law was not threatening anyone and just hanging out at a picnic bench with a toy gun..lol

If anyone is doing nothing illegal at all and is shot for flinching is that OK? This reminds me of the kid who the cop told to stop and the kid turned around and lifted up his shirt to show he had no weapons, but the officer felt he was lifting up his shirt to get to a gun, that was not there, and so the cop shot him before the kid had his shirt up 5 inches. reaching for nothing and was just holding his shirt.

originally posted by: AbbaCabba
My first thought was why the hell would a 12 yo think it is ok to do something like this, and where are his parents?

He is 12 and its a toy and he wasn't doing a dam thing but hanging out alone at a picnic bench. Just the fact the cops didn't stop 50 feet away and told him to lay it on the ground is man slaughter at the least.

I think of one of my kids in my front yard with an air soft and a cop drives by and stops and plugs him in a second...can never be too safe...lol

Its like cops these days feel EVERYONE is out to kill them so any reason at all and they will shoot first as questions later. Spending a few years of my life in Iraq and Afghanistan if I acted this way towards people that actually did want to kill me I would be in jail today.

Here is a link to the surveillance video.

youtu.be...

Within the first minute he pointed a gun, not a toy, but a pellet gun (intended for hunting small game) at a passer by that is blurred to protect identity. This is not a child playing in a park. This is someone up to no good. Now let me ask you a question, in the early 1900's when nearly every family has a gun for survival or hunting do you think this kind of behavior would have been ruled acceptable? As a parent is it ok to let a child have an air pistol and just aim it at random people? As a human why is it ok to point a weapon at anyone unless it is a life or death situation? I am a parent and a gun owner, and my child has absolutely zero access to any of my guns. You can not argue both sids of the fence. Were the police actions without fault? No. Were the the suspects? No. It is an unfortunate series of events that were completely preventable. People need to remember that there are child gang members, drug dealers, thieves and children participate in any number of other illicit activities. Just because someone is under 18 does not mean it is ok to turn a blind eye to criminal behavior. Police see all the worst that society has to offer in a daily basis. If that kid was just being a kid, he would not have brought a gun to a park, let alone point it at people as they walk by. I grew up in a very shady place, and I remember when I was 16 I got into a fight with someone. Later that day his little brother threatened me with a gun. He lifted up his jacket and showed me the handle of a gun. Do you think I stood there and waited to see if it was real? I hit him as hard as I could multiple times and made sure he wasn't getting out of there. I ran home and called the cops. He was arrested for possession of a firearm. It was a real gun and it turns out I was in real danger. He said he was going to shoot me because I beat up his brother and he can't let a white boy do that. Half of you liberals live in a fantasy land. This isn't some game, the breakdown of society is very real, and not holding people accountable will not change a thing. If someone is doing this at 12 there is a very good chance they will be in far greater trouble when they are older. They obviously were not receiving proper parenting at home. Kids grow up too fast in today's age. a reply to: Xtrozero

a reply to: Shamrock6


It's war. It's us vs them.
Cops suit up, not to protect and to serve, but merely to survive their shift. Protests on cops, yet protestors call the cops when they need protection. Cops shoot kids, but other kids run around armed.


It's not right.
It's not wrong.

It's the new normal.

originally posted by: AbbaCabba
If someone is doing this at 12 there is a very good chance they will be in far greater trouble when they are older. They obviously were not receiving proper parenting at home. Kids grow up too fast in today's age. a reply to: Xtrozero

It doesn't matter, when they quickly pulled up and shot him within one second of getting out of the car that is what I see as a total failure and why it is man slaughter. The kid didn't even have a second to react and if they pulled up 50 feet away and just told him to put the gun on the ground real or not real the kid would be alive today.

Also a very good chance of being bad when he grows up has nothing to do with this at all.

I'm not a liberal, I'm a 28 year vet who loves gun and I do agree with your whole parents are not doing their job side of this debate, but once again the cops didn't need to handle it as they did, and as I said before if I acted the same in Iraq/Afghanistan to shoot first anyone I thought looked aggressive I would be in jail today, and that is in places that had people who really wanted to kill me.

As a side note, the cops never saw the video until well after, all they saw was a kid all alone near a park bench doing nothing at the time they drove up, but it seems they got a message that he was pointing a gun at people, but not a message it was most likely not real and he was 12. Very freaken convenient I would say.

During the few seconds it took them to pull up get out and shoot him, his crappy parents, his poor future, what he was doing 5 mins before really didn't play into any of it.