Why Liberals Admire and Romanticize Islam

originally posted by: ketsuko

It's called confirmation bias.

When something doesn't agree with you, you think of it negatively. So of course, you can't think of people who are liberal and Christian who are ranting and raving and talking sh*t because to you they never come off that way because you agree with them.

When you see a conservative and Christian who says something you don't agree with, you think of it as ranting and raving whether it strictly is or isn't because you are already predisposed to think of such people in that manner.

No, I'm saying I don't know of any Leftist Christians, which I know do exist, making a bunch of controversial speeches based upon their commitment and/or membership toward Liberal Christianity. If you have an example of one please show me. I can show you many many examples of Conservative Christians making controversial statements publicly while making it well known that they are Conservative Christians.

Show me some examples of someone who's platform is Liberal Christianity and using that as their reason for what they are saying. I'm serious, I don't recall anyone like that.

What facts???

You're trying to tell me that because some countries in the Middle East execute Gays and those countries are also Mostly Muslim that Muslims Everywhere and the Core Teaching of Islam is to execute Gays. That is what you're saying right??? I just want to make that clear first before we start breaking down your so called facts.

a reply to: mOjOm

What can I show you to convince you, mojom?

originally posted by: ketsuko

Yes, it is, and as I pointed out earlier in the thread. Liberals are the ones who will rant and rave about the African Christians doing this as something inherent to Christianity in general while simultaneously turning a blind eye to it in the ME and excusing it as something related to culture not religion. Of course, then they say it is their culture so it's something they can't judge.

Well I'm not. I'm not implying that because Christians are doing that in Africa it's part of Christian thinking everywhere. I think those who call themselves Christians in Africa while supporting the killing of Gays are making a bad name for Christians in general and IMO shouldn't be calling themselves Christians.

But I see it the same way for Muslims doing the same in the Middle East as well. According to other Muslims, the ones doing that stuff in the ME also are making a bad name for Muslims in General. So if the Christians in Africa are "not true Christians" because other Christians don't agree with them, shouldn't I apply the same reasoning to Muslims???

a reply to: mOjOm

Try Father Pfleger on for starters. He's right up there with Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Of course, your inability to name any leftist Christians at all makes me doubt that you really know much about any of the conservative ones beyond having run across their names on a blog and reading there that they said something beyond the pale which is, of course, what such things are designed to do.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You would think that a liberal-mindset would oppose a religion that condemns freedom of religion and freedom of speech, that mistreats minorities, homosexuals and women, but the rhetoric coming out of the left is nothing short of Islamic advocacy.

Do you believe all Muslims are the same? Do you believe all Christians are the same?

Do you believe all liberals are the same?

Do you agree with all conservatives?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
What can I show you to convince you, mojom?

I don't know. Can you find me a moderate Muslim who will also say that killing Homosexuals is a core teaching of Islam???

Because I'm not familiar with what Islamic teachings are about. So I have to go by what other Muslims tell me and they say that Islam is about peace and so on and so forth. They also say that those Muslims who are killing gays aren't acting in the true spirit of Islam.

So I see it the same way I do Christianity. Some Christians push for the idea that killing gays is what God wants. However other Christians say that isn't what Christianity is about and those people aren't true Christians.

So if I'm going to take the Christians word on it based on what they tell me, then I'm also going to take the Muslims word on it when they tell me the same. Does that make sense??

a reply to: mOjOm

Ah, but that's not how it works and you know it.

The left, the subject of this OP, will not hesitate to draw the distinction for one group and not the other. Why is that?

That is the question the OP is asking. Until you can answer that question then we are really only going to go in circles.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: mOjOm
You do realize that in some places in Africa homosexuality is considered a crime punishable by death or life in prison. Very similar to those places in the Middle East doing the same. Only in Africa it's not the Muslims who pushed those laws but Christians.

Does that mean that is what all Christians everywhere also believe??? Or does that "all inclusive" thinking only go for Muslims??

Yes, it is, and as I pointed out earlier in the thread. Liberals are the ones who will rant and rave about the African Christians doing this as something inherent to Christianity in general while simultaneously turning a blind eye to it in the ME and excusing it as something related to culture not religion. Of course, then they say it is their culture so it's something they can't judge.

Your posts and linear thinking are exactly what I tried to highlight in my first post.

Liberals, as well as Conservatives, couldn't care less about what Christians are doing in Africa. Liberals, for the most part, do not care about what's going on in the ME, either.

What we do care about is the Right Wing Christians complaining about the atrocities of Muslims in the ME and trying to form policy around that here at home. So we point at what the African Christians are doing to show that Christians are committing similar atrocities. But when we do that, you mistakenly believe we are focusing on Christians just because we brought it up.

It's deflection, dishonest and shows a lack of integrity. You and others fail to see how your approach and rhetoric could be equally applied to both Muslims in the ME and Christian Africans.

By the way, you still have yet to explain what religious freedoms are being suppressed by Liberals.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You would think that a liberal-mindset would oppose a religion that condemns freedom of religion and freedom of speech, that mistreats minorities, homosexuals and women, but the rhetoric coming out of the left is nothing short of Islamic advocacy.

Do you believe all Muslims are the same? Do you believe all Christians are the same?

Do you believe all liberals are the same?

Do you agree with all conservatives?

If it doesn't apply to you there is no need to get offended. Simple as that.

I don't know. Can you find me a moderate Muslim who will also say that killing Homosexuals is a core teaching of Islam???

a reply to: mOjOm

I can show you the passages of the Islamic teachings of the Quran and Hadith. I can show you the Pew poll results of Muslim attitudes toward homosexuals. I can provide evidence of violence against homosexuals by Islamists. I can find you videos of Muslims speaking about homosexuals. Take your pick.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If it doesn't apply to you there is no need to get offended. Simple as that.

You really going to chicken out like that Les?

They were very simple questions...

:-)

originally posted by: ketsuko
Try Father Pfleger on for starters. He's right up there with Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Of course, your inability to name any leftist Christians at all makes me doubt that you really know much about any of the conservative ones beyond having run across their names on a blog and reading there that they said something beyond the pale which is, of course, what such things are designed to do.

Thank you. So these are Radical Leftist Christians?? You're right, I've never heard about them but will look into them and the things they do now.

When I talk about the Radical Right Christians I don't go by what others say they said if possible. I go and verify exactly what they said and the context in which they say it. I realize that there are Left Wing Propagandists too that try and spin what others say so it's better to verify it myself first. I do try and look at it objectively believe it or not. I don't like being lied to by people on the left any more than people on the Right.

You really going to chicken out like that Les?

They were very simple questions...

:-)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

People tend to use generalizations. It's a key component of communication. I was hoping fellow adults might realize this.

a reply to: ketsuko

Introvert just answered that question very nicely I think.

a reply to: mOjOm

a reply to: introvert

Liberals, as well as Conservatives, couldn't care less about what Christians are doing in Africa. Liberals, for the most part, do not care about what's going on in the ME, either.

We know you don't care ... until it becomes a handy political bludgeon with which to try to draw equivalence which you, yourself admit.

What we do care about is the Right Wing Christians complaining about the atrocities of Muslims in the ME and trying to form policy around that here at home. So we point at what the African Christians are doing to show that Christians are committing similar atrocities. But when we do that, you mistakenly believe we are focusing on Christians just because we brought it up.

What policies? If you are talking about the refugees ... then you are drawing a false equivalence as African Christians are not becoming refugees in large numbers and rushing past the immigration vetting process. You are simply doing it to try to shame us into shutting up and not pointing out our government has no reliable vetting process in place for the refugees coming here from the ME.

But I suppose it's cool to you if some of those people happen to be the ones who set people on fire alive and throw others off of building tops for sleeping with the wrong gender.

Or procure illegal firearms and go on shooting rampages against random folks for ... reasons that you will quickly try to reassure us had nothing to do with their religion.

But please make up a pretty fiction about how this is all about us being super defensive over Christianity ...

It's deflection, dishonest and shows a lack of integrity. You and others fail to see how your approach and rhetoric could be equally applied to both Muslims in the ME and Christian Africans.

If that's true, then we're simply the pot and you are the kettle.

By the way, you still have yet to explain what religious freedoms are being suppressed by Liberals.

I'm not even sure where this came from as my attendance here has been spotty and this is my last post for the evening.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I can show you the passages of the Islamic teachings of the Quran and Hadith. I can show you the Pew poll results of Muslim attitudes toward homosexuals. I can provide evidence of violence against homosexuals by Islamists. I can find you videos of Muslims speaking about homosexuals. Take your pick.

Ok. If I can show you all those same things but using the Bible and Christians would that help you understand why there is such confusion???

Because if I don't believe it's fair to lump all Christians together for what some of them believe then I equally don't believe it's fair to lump all Muslims together for what some of them believe as well.

It's really just that simple. I don't think it's correct to say all members of an organization think and believe the same based on the actions of a few within that organization. So if I'm not going to use the "they're all the same" excuse for one group I'm not going to use it for any group.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

I don't know. Can you find me a moderate Muslim who will also say that killing Homosexuals is a core teaching of Islam???

a reply to: mOjOm

I can show you the passages of the Islamic teachings of the Quran and Hadith. I can show you the Pew poll results of Muslim attitudes toward homosexuals. I can provide evidence of violence against homosexuals by Islamists. I can find you videos of Muslims speaking about homosexuals. Take your pick.

Completely agree. What should we do about it? What actions or policy decisions should we implement?

The Bible says similar things. Poll of Christians could perhaps show negative results towards homosexuality. I can provide evidence of violence against homosexuals by Christians. I can find you videos of Christians speaking about homosexuals.

Why is the Right only concerned about one and not the other, yet Liberals are being consistent?

Where is the integrity within these arguments?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Christian Pastor: Government Should Kill Gays

a reply to: mOjOm

I'm not sure why you keep bringing Christianity into this. I'm not a Christian.