Why Liberals Admire and Romanticize Islam

originally posted by: NthOther

So which right-wing propagandists do I get all my information on liberals from?

Surely you must know, if you're willing to levy the charge that I don't think for myself on the matter. I'm kinda curious myself.

It couldn't possibly be that I read what these people write day-in and day-out, could it? It couldn't possibly be based on my own experience and assessment, could it?

If that's the case then may I ask who these liberals are that you read that are putting out messages of "Hate and Intolerance" toward Christians based on nothing more than them enjoying Christians being upset??? If you say they're out there doing that then I believe you. I would like to check them out myself though since I don't know who you're talking about. I read a lot of news and don't recall coming across any with any kind of credibility. So besides the fringe liberal moron out in the wild, what liberal psychopathic haters of religion are you talking about???

a reply to: mOjOm

You're kidding, right?

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: angeldoll

Men are separated from women in Mosque, not women from the men.

Secondly Muhammad said the most important person in life is your mother, the 2nd most important is your mother, and the third most important person in life is your mother, 4th is your father.

Women are not subservient via Islam, they're subservient via Middle Eastern practice much like the women in "Christian" Africa.

Charlie, if I am not mistaken you are a converted Englishman. You are an expert on Converted to Islam Englishmen.
Things are different in the ME and I know you know that. I doubt if you are an expert on Middle Eastern Islam and culture and the way it is practiced. Sorry. I've had two friends who married men from the M.E.

I will spare you the stories, but both had to be relocated into safe houses in different states for their protection. My boss, who is the one who got me on ATS, has seen more of this than I have but she doesn't talk about it.

It ain't pretty.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: mOjOm

You're kidding, right?

No, I don't think so.

Give me an idea of what you're talking about.

a reply to: angeldoll

Anecdotes aside, which we could all exhibit, it doesn't come from the Quran.
It comes from parts of the Middle East.

Hindus do the same in India, but it's not Hinduism that's to blame.
Buddhists massacre people in Burma/Myanmar, but it's not Buddhist behaviour.


Did you even read my last paragraph?

Do you not think as a Muslim I know Muslims from the Middle East?

I'm not an expert in anything.

But I know a hell of a lot more than 99.99% of ATS on this particular subject.
If that's not good enough don't discuss it with me.
We are here to learn, at least I am, and when someone more knowledgable on a subject tells me something I take it in.

I don't try to contradict them with anecdotal evidence that can be easily identified as Middle Eastern but not at all Islamic.

If I said its Christian culture because Africans burn witches and stone gay people you'd have a # fit because you know full well it's not Christianity, but certain African cultures.

Allow the same for others than you want for yourself.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Metallicus

For whatever reason, the modern definition of "liberalism" is essentially socialism or, at least, anti-capitalism. It makes no sense but, there you go.

According to Who? Do you have a source? Just because you think something doesn't make it true. At the very least look up the words you use in a dictionary - you have one don't you.

The liberal cognitive dissonance toward Islam is one of the most interesting psychological states to me at the moment.

I lean to the left, and I hate watching demagogues politicize their fear of Muslims everyday, but I also believe all ideas should be freely scrutinized. I question the authoritarian side of every religion, but i never say "Muslims are _______" I always question specific ideas, and only the ideas, but there is almost always a 100% guarantee that one of my fellow liberals will play the Islamophobia card on me. It is very frustrating. It really kills any chance we have at healthy discourse.

I understand the liberal need to defend the oppressed, but we can't afford to have blind spots in that defense.

a reply to: Metallicus

I believe the answer is because they see all Christians as Republicans and conservatives. Right wing Christian conservative is the big label we usually see. The funny part is how ignorant it actually is, but the MSM is the big offender in that regard, but not the only one of course.
There are many Christian churches today with majority liberal democrat membership, but this isn't recognized because it ruins the dividing factor that stereotypes bring.

It does not matter ATS is evil now. The mods censor any truth. Please get out while you can!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: angeldoll

Anecdotes aside, which we could all exhibit, it doesn't come from the Quran.
It comes from parts of the Middle East.

Hindus do the same in India, but it's not Hinduism that's to blame.
Buddhists massacre people in Burma/Myanmar, but it's not Buddhist behaviour.

I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if it has been covered.

There is no denying that Buddhists in Myanmar have killed Muslims, but as far as I know there is nothing in the Buddha's teachings that says "kill non believers" or really anyone for that matter. The Buddhists in Myanmar can not claim to be inspired by the Buddha's words.

The same is not true for Islam and other Abrahamic religions, they are full of justification for violence. If you made a list of things people could be killed for in the Quran or the Bible and compared it to the list of things a person can be killed for in Buddhism or Jainism there is an undeniable difference in the number of examples.

a reply to: mOjOm

Right. A transgression, which happens to be a crime punishable by death in some Islamic countries, justified by Islamic jurisprudence and jurists. I'm suprised to see you do not agree with anything I am saying here, even though it is all there for your own research. It appears the article is right.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Or maybe it's because if there is some Christian who's talking sh*t somewhere it's most likely a Right Winger Christian who's doing it.

We all know Christians are both Right and Left wingers. Both Conservative and Liberal. But I'll be damned if I can think of a Left Wing Liberal Christian who's openly and loudly talking sh*t while wearing the label of Left Wing Liberal Christian while doing so. On the other hand if it's a so called Christian who's shouting about something and making a public spectacle of themselves you can bet it's a Christian who's also a Conservative who loves to tell everyone just how conservative and Christian they are while ranting about whatever.

I don't know why that is. I know Liberal Christians exist. They just don't seem to be wearing that label when making noise maybe. Or they don't try and represent an entire religion when they speak perhaps. I really don't know. Or maybe I'm missing something or just haven't seen it myself yet.

Clearly there are outspoken liberals out there making their own noise. Just not many noisy liberal christians for some reason. Or are there examples out there that I've not seen???

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You're still trying to convince me that Islam demands that Homosexuals should be killed. Even though Charlie, who is a Muslim, just said you're wrong.

Tell ya what. Since I'm not a Muslim, maybe you and Charlie should discuss this and find out who's right, you or him???

Then let me know what conclusion you come to. Until then, why the hell would I take your word on it when you're not Muslim and clearly have a bias against that entire Religion???

I'm not saying you are definitely wrong or that you don't have an argument needing some answers. But I can't say you're right either since I don't know what Islam teaches. But according to Charlie who does know, you're wrong about that.

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: angeldoll

Anecdotes aside, which we could all exhibit, it doesn't come from the Quran.
It comes from parts of the Middle East.

Hindus do the same in India, but it's not Hinduism that's to blame.
Buddhists massacre people in Burma/Myanmar, but it's not Buddhist behaviour.

I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if it has been covered.

There is no denying that Buddhists in Myanmar have killed Muslims, but as far as I know there is nothing in the Buddha's teachings that says "kill non believers" or really anyone for that matter. The Buddhists in Myanmar can not claim to be inspired by the Buddha's words.

The same is not true for Islam and other Abrahamic religions, they are full of justification for violence. If you made a list of things people could be killed for in the Quran or the Bible and compared it to the list of things a person can be killed for in Buddhism or Jainism there is an undeniable difference in the number of examples.

People don't just go outside one day and decide to target Muslims. It's perhaps because these countries have been attacked by Islamic invaders for many centuries.

a reply to: mOjOm

You refuse to look at facts. You can admit that or not. But it is apparent you have no argument.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Charlie, you are also a man. You are seeing the culture and religion from a different side and perspective than women will necessarily.

Do you think that someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali is lying about her childhood and young adult years? Do you think that Phyllis Chesler was lying in her memoir An American Bride in Kabul?

You do realize that in some places in Africa homosexuality is considered a crime punishable by death or life in prison. Very similar to those places in the Middle East doing the same. Only in Africa it's not the Muslims who pushed those laws but Christians.

Does that mean that is what all Christians everywhere also believe??? Or does that "all inclusive" thinking only go for Muslims??

a reply to: mOjOm

It's called confirmation bias.

When something doesn't agree with you, you think of it negatively. So of course, you can't think of people who are liberal and Christian who are ranting and raving and talking sh*t because to you they never come off that way because you agree with them.

When you see a conservative and Christian who says something you don't agree with, you think of it as ranting and raving whether it strictly is or isn't because you are already predisposed to think of such people in that manner.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: mOjOm

You refuse to look at facts. You can admit that or not. But it is apparent you have no argument.

What facts???

You're trying to tell me that because some countries in the Middle East execute Gays and those countries are also Mostly Muslim that Muslims Everywhere and the Core Teaching of Islam is to execute Gays. That is what you're saying right??? I just want to make that clear first before we start breaking down your so called facts.

originally posted by: mOjOm
You do realize that in some places in Africa homosexuality is considered a crime punishable by death or life in prison. Very similar to those places in the Middle East doing the same. Only in Africa it's not the Muslims who pushed those laws but Christians.

Does that mean that is what all Christians everywhere also believe??? Or does that "all inclusive" thinking only go for Muslims??

Yes, it is, and as I pointed out earlier in the thread. Liberals are the ones who will rant and rave about the African Christians doing this as something inherent to Christianity in general while simultaneously turning a blind eye to it in the ME and excusing it as something related to culture not religion. Of course, then they say it is their culture so it's something they can't judge.