Christians: How do you interpret Revelation 21:8?

War, police actions are not murder, but you can murder in those cases if your heart fills with the desire to kill.

Revelations in the Bible is not like other scriptures. It was set down on the pages in a way as to seem confusing and thus discourage changes in its content over the years. It can only be read and understood through revelation, as it's contents are not meant for those who do not believe, it's message is for those who follow Christ. Why, because it is a brief collage of the history of man from the pre-existence to the end of the world. It is laid out in a way that you are seeing everything happening at once; like looking at a painting which portrays a story, and where you look at that painting is what is happening at that time. The symbolism is to present images which can be interpreted from a lesser to a greater understanding as we learn and mature to a greater understanding.
Also, the text come from Greek, and the meaning of some words have a multi interpretation...like sorcery comes from the Greek word pharmacia (If I spelled it right) and could mean drugs or drug use as well.

There is a veil over the Bible, it is set between those who seek knowledge and those who don't. Understanding comes as this veil is lifted through genuine seeking through study, fasting and prayer. Those who are not willing to give the scriptures this much attention will never receive the guiding spirit who gives this understanding and the veil is not lifted for them. It is not meant to punish or deprive, but it is meant to protect. Because if we receive the light contained within and deny it, we will be held in greater accountability. The best and only way to know what is meant in Revelations is to read the new Testament and practice the love God teaches there in. Then the Veil will lift and you will see more coming from Revelation then you have ever thought possible.


a reply to: Ghost147

a reply to: Raggedyman

Ak, you have a lot of anger, you need to temper it

No anger here bud...

Just a distaste for bad theology...

So many Christians use that line in timothy to prove their bible is the word of God... "look it says it right there"... except when they don't actually know what Pauls talking about they look like a tool to those that do know

And I've never once claimed to know everything... I can't help it if I know Christianity better then 90% of you Christians

a reply to: Profusion

Just because it is in the Bible, doesn't mean it is word from God.

This Chapter was only a dream a man had.

The way to the Father is through Jesus....not through a dream.

a reply to: Akragon

This is what I believe

Paul's epistles were written between 48AD-68AD to be exact (so we have agreement on the dates of Paul's epistles). And they were written by Him, Luke and others, and in those Paul could not write himself he did write small portion of the epistles because of his eye sight, and we know that one of those who penned/wrote the epistles for Paul, gave his name at the closing of the letter.

Gal 6:11 ¶ Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
1Cor 16:21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand.
Col 4:18 The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds.
2Thess 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
Roms 16:22 I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.

The Gospels, The General epistles of James(the brother of John), Peter, John, Jude and Revelation between 48 and 95BC

These books are God inspired to these Holy Men as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and are scriptures and preserved for us today.

Just because Peter wrote his epistles after Paul was martyr doesn't mean Paul didn't give us these letter.

Paul and others did think Paul's letters were from the Lord and worthy of the scriptures s seen in the following verses preserved for us today.

1Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You're welcome to have your beliefs on scripture, which are the standard typical beliefs of most of christianity

The point is you can't use that line in timothy to show that all the books in the bible are "God breathed" as he put it... Regardless of belief, Paul wasn't talking about anything in the NT when and IF he wrote said words

He was obviously talking about the OT books... And telling people otherwise is nothing more then dishonesty

a reply to: Akragon
Believe me I am on the edge as many Baptist and other so called fundamentalist do not hold the views on scriptures as I do.

The Point is that GOD preserved his words into one English version, not man in a plethora of versions.

And you have no authority to say which scriptures I can use to support God preserved words.

As the devils told the seven Sons "Jesus and Paul I know, but who are ye?" I rest on the solid foundation in Authority of Gods promise to preserved his words to every generation. You have no solid foundation except in fickle men you call scholars.

Paul was speaking by revelation and in retrospect his words to Timothy do speak of his own letters for the church of God today. Wrapped up in the last book to be written Rev which closed the issue of additions after 95Ad.

But you forget what Paul said about his words,

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Paul considered his words to be scriptures/commandments of the Lord.

a reply to: Akragon

In regard to 2 Timothy

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The holy scriptures is the OT in the immediate context, yes, but today we have the addition of the NT and therefore as an application of Scripture for us today, the scriptures are those included into the NT. That will make you wise unto salvation in Christ Jesus.

It is all a matter of faith of which you don't seem to possess at least not in God.

I do see you have faith in Scholars but none of them can give you eternal life, that comes through Christ alone

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Ak, you have a lot of anger, you need to temper it

No anger here bud...

Just a distaste for bad theology...

So many Christians use that line in timothy to prove their bible is the word of God... "look it says it right there"... except when they don't actually know what Pauls talking about they look like a tool to those that do know

And I've never once claimed to know everything... I can't help it if I know Christianity better then 90% of you Christians

You know more than 90% of Christians, that's so good for you.
I hear similar things from atheists, how much they know, how clever they are, how they understand the bible better than Christians, sadly they are mostly wrong

Do you believe in the gnostic gospels, can you answer that question?

a reply to: Raggedyman

It is hard to deal with some when it comes to scriptures.

If they are saved then we should reject them after one or two attempts to correct them.

Akragon's salvation is known only to God.

His views are that of the Anti-Paul crowd. Thereby literally denying 2/3rds of the New Testament and all the OT Paul used. and also that of Peter saying his letter were scripture when he said,

2Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Remember Akragon did not say he knew more than 90% of Christians. He said he knew "Christianity better than 90% of you Christians".

If he truly did know Christianity better then he would honor the books of Paul seeing he was the first to call them Christian at Antioch Ceasarea.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Just because I know the religion does not mean I agree with it...

I also know the history of it, and the alterations within the books...

In any case believe whatever you will... and try to avoid talking about me in this thread...

I am not the topic at hand

a reply to: Akragon

That's just it you know knowledge but you do not know God nor are you known to him.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Says you...

Apparently you know the mind of God, and who he knows and does not...

Who bestowed such powers on you?

Lemmie guess... The book?

a reply to: Akragon

TextAnd I've never once claimed to know everything... I can't help it if I know Christianity better then 90% of you Christians

Yes, I have noted that you do have a basic Sunday School knowledge of some sects of Christianity and you are probably correct in that most Christians are pew sleepers and not students of the scriptures but that in itself is not to say that you tower much above the pew sleeper.

As Chester John writes his posts I try to check his work to the Cepher and find him most accurate in most all that he teaches. I find him accurate in this thread also. Naturally you and Chester John are discussing the realm of theology and while you are knowledgeable you are incomplete in thought. You seem to stop in mid thought as though there is a line that you refuse to cross and you leave the discussion hanging. I keep expecting you to continue but there it is left undone. Do you do this on purpose to bait the conversation? Some people do this a purpose to garner their knowledge.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Text His views are that of the Anti-Paul crowd. Thereby literally denying 2/3rds of the New Testament and all the OT Paul used. and also that of Peter saying his letter were scripture ----

Chester John, It actually goes much deeper than just denying Saul/Paul. If one rejects any man then that rejection must also pertain to his friends who vouch for his virtue. Saul/Paul was greeted and loved with deep respect as a child of the holy Father by not just certain friends such as Peter and Luke but by the entire first century congregation. Not one tossed a black stone against him but loved him as their brother.

Probably there were some who had friends or friends of friends who Saul/Paul persecuted but not one of the congregation is recorded as to those acts of error. It is truly remarkable to read of this Christianity and brings so much to mind of how frail all of us are. Paul was a landmark of honesty and sorrow in a brilliant man of God. A lesson which all Christians should observe as he wrote of his weakness and struggle with sin. Not many would expose their sins to the world and confess their weakness. Remarkable to say the least.

a reply to: Seede

Naturally you and Chester John are discussing the realm of theology and while you are knowledgeable you are incomplete in thought. You seem to stop in mid thought as though there is a line that you refuse to cross and you leave the discussion hanging. I keep expecting you to continue but there it is left undone. Do you do this on purpose to bait the conversation?

Perhaps you lack basic reading comprehension skills... I don't leave my thoughts incomplete...

The issue is when you Christians get backed into a corner, the claws come out and the subject of personal attacks becomes the thread content... Just as it is here... You're both more interested in reducing the conversation to childish insult and slander then continuing the thread topic... In which case.... Yes I bail from the thread...

Im not going to get into a ridiculous back and forth about myself when I am not the topic of the thread...

I've said my piece... Using said passage to claim that Paul was talking about the entire books is completely dishonest...

but as I've said before... believe whatever floats your boat... lie to people about what he actually said...

I couldn't care less... I only want people to realise what you and others do, because most won't realise it

Basic sunday school knowledge eh... pretty funny guy

a reply to: Profusion

like nobody saw this bait thread turn into a poo throwing contest

See the same ole tired ATS members believing their opinion is superior

The passage is speaking to the non repentant fake Christians and non believers

originally posted by: Seede
........

In plain language Revelation 21 and 22 does not apply to this universe whatsoever. Jesus is long gone and has returned to His first celestial estate as the image of God. All of the people outside of the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 and 22 see and experience God as they live. They no longer do as we do today. We live in blind faith and are saved by that faith whereas they live with God in their sight and are saved by law.

You have to read the scriptures in context as the authors intended. What you are doing is trying to convince people that the authors of the Hebrew and Greek bibles are all confused and that you are somehow a qualified translator and interpreter of their intent.

You have officially jumped a school of sharks.Your perception of "context" has none but your own darkened religious carnal mind fantasy world.

a reply to: Rex282

You have officially jumped a school of sharks.Your perception of "context" has none but your own darkened religious carnal mind fantasy world.

Yes, you could very well be right but you must realize that your theological opinions are just as fragile as my theological opinions are. In this thread I have read contextual understanding of Revelation 21:8 by very few people and I see that you have also thwarted that matter completely. I have no darkened religious concept of Revelation 21:8. In fact Revelation 21:8, at this time, does not pertain to this world and shall never pertain to this world. I see one shark that I did not jump over but then the ocean is full of them is it not?

a reply to: Akragon

The issue is when you Christians get backed into a corner, the claws come out and the subject of personal attacks becomes the thread content... Just as it is here... You're both more interested in reducing the conversation to childish insult and slander then continuing the thread topic... In which case.... Yes I bail from the thread...

Yes, you are right and I am sorry that I trolled this thread. My apology to you and the ones on this thread.

Now to get back to the subject matter of Revelation 21:8-- Would love to have you explain these two chapters to me. Be my guest please.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Says you...

Apparently you know the mind of God, and who he knows and does not...

Who bestowed such powers on you?

Lemmie guess... The book?

1Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither uhave entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

If we have the Mind of Christ as Paul instruct we do then have and know the mind of God in Christ.