Christians: How do you interpret Revelation 21:8?

I picture a man exiled to an Island sitting in a little cell and kind of crabby at the world. Maybe he is kind of in a bummed out mood. I'm sure he isn't going to write about the fun he is having as a Christian.

a reply to: Akragon

what he is saying you have no proof that your statement is true. While we have a 13 possibly 14 books attributed to him all you have is assumption and innuendo concerning Paul and his words.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

what he is saying you have no proof that your statement is true. While we have a 13 possibly 14 books attributed to him all you have is assumption and innuendo concerning Paul and his words.

Sorry Chester, you can't disagree with the catman, he knows everything there is to know
He knows every verse, every interpretation, in fact God is nicely packed away in a box in his storage shed, easily manageable

The only truth is the truth he has knowledge of and any one with a different opinion is clearly thick

Imagine how great life is, not much need for faith either

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

what he is saying you have no proof that your statement is true. While we have a 13 possibly 14 books attributed to him all you have is assumption and innuendo concerning Paul and his words.

LOL what silly nonsense is this?

I know a lot of you Christians have real problems with logic so bare with me here...

Scholars believe that he wrote most of his books somewhere around 50 to 67ad, approx. when he disappeared from the scene... The earliest copies of Timothy are dated around 100-150ad... which is one of the reasons many people consider them pseudo Pauline letters... we don't even know IF Paul even wrote them...

The earliest Gospel was Mark... written approx. 65-80ad... IF Paul was gone by 67ad, it would be highly unlikely he would even know about the gospel of mark in the first place...which leaves Matthew, and John out of the picture completely having both been considered widely among scholars to have a dating of no earlier then 75ad...

Revelation was written approx. 90-95ad... that's out as well... and so are all the letters from John, Peter and James... all of which have a later date then Pauls disappearance.

Paul might have had a hand in writing Lukes gospel, but its unlikely because Luke interviewed people for his information... looking for direct witnesses to his life... mostly from mary is the theory

the only thing left is his own writing...

And he was in no position to consider his own writing "scripture" in any case...

Clearly he was talking about the books of the Old Testament and Nothing from the NEW... because when he was around, none of the books of the NT were considered scripture... they were nothing more then writing from people who knew Jesus... and Paul... and lets not forget he was a Pharisee as well.... the books he knew the best were the OT... what the Pharisee's considered "scripture"

Get a clue guys.... seriously

a reply to: Raggedyman

Sorry Chester, you can't disagree with the catman

Disagree all you want to....

Just get your facts straight before you do

a reply to: Akragon

Brilliant rebuttal.
Go you!!


I think honestly many of them are terrified (or should I say becoming more panicky?) that the rug is being pulled out from under them.

The answer to this never-ending debate is:
EDUCATION

a reply to: SBargisen

an unbeliever will be someone NOT believing in the trinity, hence all other religions is unbelievers.

You do realize there was a huge ruckus about whether or not "The Trinity" thing was viable, right?
Back in, erm......circa 325 CE?

The Arius issue and all that?

Three centuries after the legendary Christ supposedly did his thing.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Actually arius was a trinitarian...

Just not the kind that came after the council of nicaea...

Arius believed what Jesus taught... That being HE was subordinate to the Father... Not equal in any way

a reply to: Akragon

Yeah, a big huge ruckus.

The main theological issue had always been about Christ. Since the end of the apostolic age, Christians had begun debating these questions: Who is the Christ? Is He more divine than human or more human than divine? Was Jesus created or begotten? Being the Son of God, is He co-equal and co-eternal with the Father, or is He lower in status than the Father? Is the Father the one true God, or are the Father, Son, and Spirit the one true God?

A priest named Arius presented his argument that Jesus Christ was not an eternal being, that He was created at a certain point in time by the Father. Bishops such as Alexander and the deacon Athanasius argued the opposite position: that Jesus Christ is eternal, just like the Father is. It was an argument pitting trinitarianism against monarchianism.

Constantine prodded the 300 bishops in the council make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is.

www.gotquestions.org...


See, what I get out of it is that Jesus said we are all the same as him (Jesus) - we have the Divine Spark within us....and are equally "children of God."

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Akragon

Brilliant rebuttal.
Go you!!


I think honestly many of them are terrified (or should I say becoming more panicky?) that the rug is being pulled out from under them.

The answer to this never-ending debate is:
EDUCATION

Terrified? Of what?

Akragon thinks God is a cuddly little Buddha type man who wouldn't hurt a fly.
Look around, the earth doesn't go well with that theology

When the rug is pulled everyone will be terrified

Akragons god is not a God of justice, justice is coming, be terrified

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

what he is saying you have no proof that your statement is true. While we have a 13 possibly 14 books attributed to him all you have is assumption and innuendo concerning Paul and his words.

LOL what silly nonsense is this?

I know a lot of you Christians have real problems with logic so bare with me here...

Scholars believe that he wrote most of his books somewhere around 50 to 67ad, approx. when he disappeared from the scene... The earliest copies of Timothy are dated around 100-150ad... which is one of the reasons many people consider them pseudo Pauline letters... we don't even know IF Paul even wrote them...

The earliest Gospel was Mark... written approx. 65-80ad... IF Paul was gone by 67ad, it would be highly unlikely he would even know about the gospel of mark in the first place...which leaves Matthew, and John out of the picture completely having both been considered widely among scholars to have a dating of no earlier then 75ad...

Revelation was written approx. 90-95ad... that's out as well... and so are all the letters from John, Peter and James... all of which have a later date then Pauls disappearance.

Paul might have had a hand in writing Lukes gospel, but its unlikely because Luke interviewed people for his information... looking for direct witnesses to his life... mostly from mary is the theory

the only thing left is his own writing...

And he was in no position to consider his own writing "scripture" in any case...

Clearly he was talking about the books of the Old Testament and Nothing from the NEW... because when he was around, none of the books of the NT were considered scripture... they were nothing more then writing from people who knew Jesus... and Paul... and lets not forget he was a Pharisee as well.... the books he knew the best were the OT... what the Pharisee's considered "scripture"

Get a clue guys.... seriously

Get a clue, seriously you tell us to get a clue

Where did all your new age books come from?
Care to place them under the same scrutiny, it would be laughable if it wasn't so sincere

a reply to: Raggedyman

lol my god is what?

I don't think God is a man of any sorts

And "my theology" says that this world is run by something that isn't God...

Justice comes for everyone... I just don't believe a loving creator would torture his children like you people seem to

Get a clue, seriously you tell us to get a clue

Where did all your new age books come from?
Care to place them under the same scrutiny, it would be laughable if it wasn't so sincere

What new age books are you referring to?

I read the same things as you do... that being the bible, but I also educate myself in other religions and sects of early Christianity...

So uhm... yeah... knock my "books" and you're just bashing your own material

Oh so you don't read any of the gnostic gospels
My bad



And please feel free to educate me on my theology on hell, I anticipate it greatly

a reply to: Raggedyman

Actually I've read all of the gnostic texts... many times

What does that have to do with anything?

And please feel free to educate me on my theology on hell, I anticipate it greatly

What would be the point of that.... you know your own beliefs on Hell

why should I have to spoon feed you?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Actually I've read all of the gnostic texts... many times

What does that have to do with anything?

And please feel free to educate me on my theology on hell, I anticipate it greatly

What would be the point of that.... you know your own beliefs on Hell

why should I have to spoon feed you?

You call yourself a gnostic?
You don't believe in the gnostic texts?

As for my understanding of hell, please, you said you don't believe what I do

What do you believe I believe, I don't expect you to spoon feed me, just tell me what I believe.
Only sensible as you know everything, even my understanding of hell, evidently

Please let me answer the question for you

Sorry raggedy, I was being a knowitall, I don't know what you believe

a reply to: Raggedyman

You call yourself a gnostic?

I don't call myself anything... I don't need a label for my beliefs

You don't believe in the gnostic texts?

I believe some of the information, not even close to all of it... but I don't believe everything in the bible either

As for my understanding of hell, please, you said you don't believe what I do

What do you believe I believe, I don't expect you to spoon feed me, just tell me what I believe.
Only sensible as you know everything, even my understanding of hell, evidently

I don't know what you believe Hell is, Nor do I care honestly...

You could be one of 40k different flavors of Christian...

Please let me answer the question for you

Sorry raggedy, I was being a knowitall, I don't know what you believe

I think you just got your nuts all twisted because I stuffed a factual logical answer down your throat that you weren't expecting... Personal attacks don't get far with me brother

originally posted by: rickymouse
I picture a man exiled to an Island sitting in a little cell and kind of crabby at the world. Maybe he is kind of in a bummed out mood. I'm sure he isn't going to write abou the fun he is having as a Christian.

Symptomatically, the writing from Rev. is straight out of the 'onset of dementia' files...whoever wrote them...and the profile of a person unfairly imprisoned on an island, would pretty much bring it on...


Å99

Dp

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

You call yourself a gnostic?

I don't call myself anything... I don't need a label for my beliefs

You don't believe in the gnostic texts?

I believe some of the information, not even close to all of it... but I don't believe everything in the bible either

As for my understanding of hell, please, you said you don't believe what I do

What do you believe I believe, I don't expect you to spoon feed me, just tell me what I believe.
Only sensible as you know everything, even my understanding of hell, evidently

I don't know what you believe Hell is, Nor do I care honestly...

You could be one of 40k different flavors of Christian...

Please let me answer the question for you

Sorry raggedy, I was being a knowitall, I don't know what you believe

I think you just got your nuts all twisted because I stuffed a factual logical answer down your throat that you weren't expecting... Personal attacks don't get far with me brother

No my nuts are not twisted, personal attack on me?
Just wanted to show you you don't know everything as you claim

So you are not a gnostic, better do a search on you then

I won't, it's your buisness not mine

Ak, you have a lot of anger, you need to temper it

a reply to: Raggedyman

Akragons god is not a God of justice,

Akragon's god and I are well acquainted. Yours is the psycho.

justice is coming,

When?

be terrified

No.