The Lost Library of Iona

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Anaana

I know! I know it's wrong to find him attractive for so many, many reasons and yet I just can't help myself.

I would say most of the Irish Annals, like the Lebor Gabala Erenn et al have a huge amount of real history in them, it's just that it's fashionable right now (well, 19th century onwards) to dismiss them out of hand. I shall have to go back and read the Book of Leinster again, and Nennius too while I'm at it.

I had to look up Nennius, haven't come across him, thanks. If you haven't read it, though I suspect you have, I can recommend The Tain, in fact anything relating to Cu Chulainn, for having some good druidy bits in it. And it is all common mytho-/theological themes to other Bronze age cultures across Eurasia so useful for comparative purposes too.

originally posted by: oletimer
a reply to: beansidhe

That appendix

does not look like a library of Druids, does it?

No it does not, but...it is suggestive of a library at Iona, which is all O'Loughlin was trying to demonstrate. These are just the books he recognises that Adomnan used as references for DLS. So if we consider O'Loughlin's argument together with the folklore that has travelled down through time plus the Book of Kells, a picture does begin to emerge. It is possible that the claims of the greatest library in Europe were true.

a reply to: Anaana

Neil Oliver!

Remember the series he did on Scotland, where he got a DNA test which he found he was nearly half Hispanic... Looks like he had to break the bad news to his proud Scottish father!

a reply to: beansidhe

Fascinating story and also about a truly fascinating place. S & F for sharing.

However, i truly do not believe any lost library would contain any scrolls, etc, from the Druids. Why? Because the Celts didn't have written records until the invention of Ogham (sometime circa 5th Century AD). As Mona had been destroyed by around 58AD, that means nearly 400 years before Ogham.

There is certainly historic intrigue about Iona though and the possible lost knowledge sent there. Aside from anything, it offered a much more interactive version of Christianity than what was being offered by Rome at the time....

a reply to: Flavian

Hi Flavian!

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Druids and the culdees were not so far apart, in fact in my mind (and probably only in my mind ) the culdees were the natural 'descendants'.

Can you imagine catching a glimpse of say, the book of Kells, sitting on a lectern in the candlelight of a cold, stormy winter's day? It would have been magnificent, unlike anything else of its kind.
There is a couthiness about the Celtic church, that is so far removed from the pomposity of Rome; it feels more accessible and intimate.

Much obliged for your insights.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: beansidhe

However, i truly do not believe any lost library would contain any scrolls, etc, from the Druids. Why? Because the Celts didn't have written records until the invention of Ogham (sometime circa 5th Century AD). As Mona had been destroyed by around 58AD, that means nearly 400 years before Ogham.

Perhaps. Man, there's this thing with history that really rubs me. There is "written" history that is predominately from the hand of the victors. There is other written history that was so important to the losers that they went through great pains to secure and hide.

There is also a general accepted history in that we think we know, because there are known knowns, but. There are also known unknowns, likewise we accept there are unknown unknowns. ...as a defense secretary once put it.

Not to mention there still exists a false history and another symbiotically connected version argued over semantics.

Looooong story short, we often never give credit where credit is due until it is staring us directly in the face and even than, it could take a generation or twelve to accept it. My posts proves nothing, only that I take most history with a grain of salt. Sometimes the repression of a people is so great their past can be rewritten altogether and their culture completely assimilated long before we modern people's decided to go digging.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Looooong story short, we often never give credit where credit is due until it is staring us directly in the face and even than, it could take a generation or twelve to accept it. My posts proves nothing, only that I take most history with a grain of salt. Sometimes the repression of a people is so great their past can be rewritten altogether and their culture completely assimilated long before we modern people's decided to go digging.

I think you've just summed up my whole attitude in 3 sentences. Iona was sacked in 795 AD by the Vikings - plenty of time for scrolls and manuscripts to accumulate. There is a very interesting subject, which I'm swithering about writing a thread on - Coelbren.

From wiki:

The Coelbren y Beirdd (English: "Bards' alphabet") is a runic alphabet system created in the late eighteenth century by the literary forger Edward Williams, best known as Iolo Morganwg.[1][2]...

Taliesin Williams's book was written about other Coelbrennau'r Beirdd, which is the name of a Welsh language manuscript in the Iolo Manuscripts and two manuscripts in Barddas, one with the subtitle "yn dorredig a chyllell".

Iolo Morganwg suggested they were originally the work of bards from Glamorgan who had their manuscripts copied into collections stored at Plas y Van, Castell Nedd Abbey, Margam Abbey and Raglan Library, and compiled by Meyrig Davydd and Lewys Morganwg, amongst others, in the 1700s.

These were suggested to have again been transcribed by Edward Davydd, John Bradford and Llywelyn Siôn. Moganwg suggested that he had collected some of Siôn and Bradford's manuscripts, while the majority, including all of Lewys Morganwg's sources, were lost. This claim to authenticity has been questioned by numerous scholars such as Glyn Cothi Lewis.[6][7][8][9]

You'll notice that Iolo is described as a 'literary fraud' by wiki! I'm interested in him because there is a Pictish stone in Scotland with writing on it that has never been identified, let alone translated.
We know they had writing but we have no idea what it says. It's frustating and disheartening to know so little about your own country. Your assimilation comment really hit home.