How Much Are The Police Really Costing You?

Police misconduct is becoming a common daily occurrence in America causing states to hand our millions of dollars in settlements to victims of police brutality. But who pays for those settlements? Today on #OffTheGrid, I investigate how much police misconduct really costs you. Do you think the U.S. is in a police state?

I'd like to say I'm surprised, but that would be disingenuous.

You can kind of see where the police are getting their military attitudes from. They're embroiled in "War", after all.

I am surprised that you Americans don't have an independent authority to investigate complaints against the police, although I am sure some exist, so excuse my ignorance. In the UK it's the IPCC.

Independent Police Complaints Commission

IPCC commissioners oversee all investigations. In the most serious cases, the commissioner is directly responsible for key decisions during the investigation. In other cases, the commissioner may delegate these decisions to appropriate roles
within the organisation. Commissioners come from a range of backgrounds. By law, they can never have worked for the police.

Every use of a firearm by the police initiates an independent investigation, which is possibly why the last person killed by the police in England and Wales was in 2012 and shootings are very rare.

Oh, and all investigations are transparent and published.

If we didn't have criminals then we wouldn't need the police to protect us.

The cost of keeping prisoners in jail is getting overwhelming. The cost of our legal system is way too high. It seems like the lawyers are profiting by corruption more than the criminals are.

I'd like to see some numbers on how many times a day police in the US discharge a firearm. Investigating every single one of them would simply not be possible, since there is NOTHING you can do in this country to impede the police in their shenanigans. They are protecting the establishment, their protection goes all the way up the chain.

As a former police officer, let me tell you, it's the top 2/3 you really have to look out for. THAT is where the real problem is, and it bleeds over into City Hall corruption. When was the last time you heard of a Police Chief being disciplined? Never. They would never even investigate a complaint against one of their own.

The hard charging, real sense of justice, fight for what's right cops get drummed out. And a bunch of incompetent POS's get to stay on the job because they don't 'rock the boat'.

You really want to clean house? Start at the top.

a reply to: paraphi

No, you're totally right. Our system is jacked. The only entity to investigate police misconduct is...internal affairs...which is what? Police. There are officers every day who try to file complaints against supervisor misconduct. Those complaints are swept under the rug, that police officer is ignored until the department can find something/anything to fire THEM on. And the crooked/incompetent supervisor in question gets quietly reassigned.

They REALLY need an independent board to investigate ALL complaints. The average joe citizen has NO CLUE how corrupt police departments truly are. They trust that the upper echelon has integrity and has THEIR best interests at heart. Sorry, Charlie. Not at all.

a reply to: JesseVentura


JV et al.- You should have enough 'juice' to get a ride-along type series ala Steven Seagull then We can follow along as the cops do a "fishing expedition" on every traffic stop looking for a .10¢ of grass because the taillight is non-operational. Then You can show the person getting 'booked' into the PRIVATE jail and then having the option of having a court appointed attorney fight their beefs or cop a plea and have their lives ruined that way.

Then Y'all can do a RAID at low income housing because these folks are less apt to hire a real attorney to get them off..

•Medically retired Ca. Cop and proud member of LEAP.

a reply to: JesseVentura

The news that police can take your stuff if they suspect it's involved in a crime still shocks me. I believe it's the practice of civil asset forfeiture. Here is a video of John Oliver explaining it:



"Legalized robbery by law enforcement".

A guy traveled from michigan to california with $2,400, that his dad had lent him, to start a new job. He was pulled over and the police officer took his money saying, "I'm going to keep the money because I've concluded here that you are traveling from michigan to california to purchase drugs".

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
The only entity to investigate police misconduct is...internal affairs...which is what? Police. There are officers every day who try to file complaints against supervisor misconduct. Those complaints are swept under the rug, that police officer is ignored until the department can find something/anything to fire THEM on. And the crooked/incompetent supervisor in question gets quietly reassigned.

They REALLY need an independent board to investigate ALL complaints. The average joe citizen has NO CLUE how corrupt police departments truly are.

I think the Average Joe, today, DOES know how corrupt police departments are, which is why LEO's and judges are cracking down so hard on people that film them while they violate the constitution.

LEO's are not trusted by large portions of the general public any longer. Perhaps not a majority, YET, but still having large numbers concentrated heavily among those under 40 years of age. Also, even, IF, the under 40 crowd does not believe that LEO's are dangerously lethal to civilians (which they do), this under 40 cohort, ABSOLUTELY believes that LEO's are, primarily, "revenue collectors".

There are LONG TERM consequence of these actions, which LEO's, as a group, have taken, while in the field and has compounded all the issues surrounding their increasingly negative public image. Over the last 25 years, contemporary LEOs have proven, through their actions, that they are in place to do the following and NOTHING MORE:

1. Protect themselves.
2. Maximize their total compensation.
3. Act as a source of revenue generation for the department currently employing them, the union they belong to and the local governments authorizing their activities.
4. Protecting the commercial interests of national corporations (with PAC's lobbying on the behalf of the big corporations)
5. Protecting the private property and political interests of large, influential, land & business owners, residing within their jurisdiction, that also contribute to and participate in local politics (i.e. campaign donations for Police Chief and Sheriff elections).
6. Controlling dissenting narratives that would interfere with 1-5.

They’ve been totally co-opted, insulated from financial consequences and tax paying citizens are picking up the tab. Many civilians today, view the police no differently than the way in which police typically view the general public, with suspicion.

Here is an example of a sleepy county in Oregon, that is 92% white, with 56% of the population over 45 years of age, yet, these people still VOTED TO DE-FUND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT because they got sick of receiving unjust traffic tickets:

Defunding government is a sensible voter solution to reining in local government By Dave Duffy

Think about that for a minute, if LEO's can't hold the trust of small communities, with these kinds of demographics, what chance do they stand anywhere else? Not much. This should be a VERY CLEAR message that LEO's, in general, have lost the trust of the public

Civilians should not trust the motivations of LEO's and must always assume that their lives are in danger, with EVERY interaction they have with LEO's.

Why? Not because ALL LEO's are bad, but because ALL LEO's are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians AND TAKE THEIR PROPERTY, as they see fit.

Law Enforcement Agencies, AS CURRENTLY OPERATED (see above items 1-6), can't function when large numbers of people with good consciences serve in them. So, even if good people with consciences tried to enact grass-root change from within, they would simply be denied entry to the agency or get quickly removed from the ranks through various legal and administrative means.

Also most importantly, that’s how Fascism works and in turn uses domestic police forces to tighten the grip on those whom are most likely to dissent against the status quo. Make no mistake about it, LEO's in the United States are becoming the new Ordnungspolizei (Orpo) and there will NEVER be enough "good apples" to stop this shift. Law Enforcement Agencies and the types of officers they typically employ, like having the option to "overreact" and if too many internal "do-gooders" start eroding that ability, I suspect that most officers wouldn't want to be in Law Enforcement anymore. They do "Protect & Serve", but its the STATE that they "Protect & Serve".

Here is an except from Bowers v. DeVito. In 1982, the Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit held, "...there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents... but it does not violate... the Constitution."

"no duty" = "free to ignore" because if there is no financial or legal consequence to inaction, then certainly some "bad apples" will use that as a legal basis for "choosing", when to "render services" or when not to.

From the perspective of LEO's, the above noted ruling means that they may "pick and choose" when they attempt to "save someone from death or injury" because the ruling does not obligate them to act. It is that perspective, which LEO's are allowed to legally take, that should matter to the average citizen. The context from Bowers v. DeVito is very clear, the police CHOSE to not assist, despite Marguerite Anne Bowers repeatedly requesting their help and the courts then determined that the police are not liable for making the "choice" to not help her.

As for the "Oath's" that LEO's typically take, lets use the LAPD oath for example, which seems to be MOSTLY concerned with swearing to not overthrow the government:

"And I do further swear (or affirm) that I do not advocate, nor am I a member of any party or organization, political or other- wise, that now advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means; that within the five years immediately preceding the taking of this oath (or affirmation) I have not been a member of any party or organization, political or other-wise, that advocated the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means. I will not advocate nor become (name of office) a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means."

Here is another sample Oath, that focuses on "Peace with the Communities" within the "Sovereign Country and State":

I SWEAR,, THAT - I WILL WELL AND TRULY SERVE - OUR SOVEREIGN COUNTRY AND STATE - AS A POLICE OFFICER WITHOUT FAVOR OR AFFECTION - MALICE OR ILL-WILL - UNTIL I AM LEGALLY DISCHARGED, THAT I WILL SEE AND CAUSE ­ OUR COMMUNITY’S PEACE TO BE KEPT AND PRESERVED - AND THAT - I WILL PREVENT TO THE BEST OF MY POWER - ALL OFFENSES AGAINST THAT PEACE - AND THAT - WHILE I CONTINUE TO BE A POLICE OFFICER

So exactly how, do these above noted sample Oaths, keep officers from "picking and choosing" when they attempt to "save someone from death or injury" due to having no LEGAL obligation to act? Other than of course, having the LEGAL obligation to keep "Peace with the Communities" within the "Sovereign Country and State" and also swearing to not overthrow the government.

I think it should come off the top of the fixed annual police budget...that might help them think twice about it before doing something stupid

a reply to: boohoo

Yes, my favorite way of describing that issue is:

"We have investigated ourselves and found ourselves not guilty on all charges. What, tampering with evidence? Interfering with due process? "It's only been ten seconds since you were accused." What does that mean?"

a reply to: JesseVentura

How many lawsuits are frivolous also? Paid in order to stop cities from burning?


Pcg

a reply to: boohoo

The average Joe Citizen is aware of street level corruption, i.e. overzealous Patrol officers. Rodney King, Freddie Gray, "I can't breathe", etc. The average Joe Citizen is becoming less tolerant of street level officers overstepping their boundaries, as well they should be.

But a vast majority of people still believe that the Lieutenants and Chiefs and City Manager's Offices are just full of professionalism and integrity, and that they can be trusted. And I have personally witnessed first hand how ridiculously corrupt they are. They don't even bother with the law anymore. Or their own rules. And if one office slams a door in your face, brace yourself, because they're a unified front and everywhere you turn you will continue to get the cold shoulder. No matter how serious your allegations are, no matter how much proof you have.

How can anyone expect the street level guys to operate with integrity when THAT is their "leadership"?

a reply to: JesseVentura

Here's an example of what I am now going through. This post is via one of my volunteers. Involves tampered audio and forged affidavit used by Collin County DA who is Business partners with the now indicted Texas Attorney General. Updates are usually posted via my blog at www.friscopaul.blogspot.com. If you can't prove or haven't found tampered or forged evidence prior to trial, it is difficult to have judgements vacated in a state ruled by one party like Texas.

Since the Texas Attorney General has been recently arrested himself and happens to be business partners with the District Attorney who used tampered evidence and forged evidence to try Mr. Bailey, and who made sure that exculpatory evidence was never provided to him. The level of conspiratorial cooperation between all the players is staggering.
The forged evidence used bears the "signature" of Detective we believe was actually "suicided" for not going along with the party line.   I have personally begged the Texas Rangers to reopen her case.   For the record, the DA that used this evidence is the business partner with the recently indicted Attorney General of Texas.

Brief rundown on event:  a Texas Castle Law situation (he fired a warning shot) that ended up with Mr. Bailey being arrested and the police inviting the son (who had active warrants out for his arrest, who also lied about his whereabouts on the phone with 911 operator and who had been threatening Dad all week and who had been priming Dad with threats to expect him and then called 911 and told them Dad was suicidal).  To make matters worse: at close to midnight the cops show up and do NOT announce themselves among other serious protocol breaches.  Dad expecting drug addicted and 6'4" son, yells out "Get out of here Rick" and fires warning shot.  He then takes another sleeping pill and goes to bed.   4 hours later, he is awakened but severely groggy by a throw phone and a helicopter overhead  and snipers on rooftops and the media reporting he shot at "cops" in the plural and has a “child held hostage”.  They confused the story of his son making a bogus 911 call with Mr. Bailey the father, having a child hostage! Needless to say, media would not investigate or retract prior to trial and Mr. Bailey was not prepared for bad or collusive "defense" attorneys- he was toast the moment he agreed to let them represent him in the courtroom after they had the Judge order them to come to some agreement regarding the matter.   The one sticking point was whether the attorneys agreed to use his defense strategy, they did so, but then refused to use it during trial.

Other details are "Get out of here Rick" was erased from lapel mic, but after trial I had several experts double checking one another and each verified tampering and then two of them found out they were able to retrieve that part of the audio from the car audio over 100 feet from the house.  None of this was even looked at by his attorneys who I firmly believe were either seriously incompetent or on the take.

We have also recently discovered some documents that we now know were forged. The "signatory"  Detective Debra Stansell's death was officially declared a “suicide" by the Texas Rangers just a few weeks prior to trial so was unable to validate that she signed any of the documents used.  We were crushed because we had hoped to have her testify since we found out from one of her friends that told Mr. Bailey that "Debra Stansell was sick at what had happened to him!" 

www.friscopaul.blogspot.com...

Details on Forgery:

www.friscopaul.blogspot.com...

All the rest of the crazy details:

www.friscopaul.blogspot.com...

With Debra Stansell out of the way, the new "main witness"  Now ex detective Scott Greer (more about that below) had a captive audience.   (However in 2014 he was dishonorably discharged for improper sexual relations with a rape victim who eventually showed up murdered.   In an effort to look transparent, the city did a "review" (that conveniently omitted looking at all improprieties or go far enough back to have to look at this case) but did look for other sexual impropriety- they found more of this type of impropriety, but clearly missed untold other types.   He was summarily discharged and banned from all testimony, endangering hundreds of cases.)     I have personally begged Texas Ranger Mencken to reopen the deceased Detective Stansell's case as a result of what we found (manufactured (forged) evidence and tampered tapes- one expert declared it "criminally altered" while two others verified one another and said they were able to enhance the erased portion of the lapel mic and retrieve from car audio the warning that verified that everything that Mr. Bailey did was in accordance with Texas Castle Law and that no crime occurred).   


The Habeas includes affidavits of experts:


1)  The first file is the Habeas Cover Sheet required by the State of Texas.

drive.google.com...

2) The 2nd file, continues the motion.

drive.google.com...

3) The 3rd through 7th  files are attachments and evidence.

drive.google.com...

drive.google.com...

drive.google.com...

drive.google.com...

drive.google.com...


Motion to fire the attorney assigned over a year ago "to represent him with his writ of habeas, and who was ordered by the court to not reveal any discovery" and who never filed anything or responded to any of his letters, let alone obtain previously denied evidence:

drive.google.com...

His motion to vacate is at the following links in order:
drive.google.com...
drive.google.com...
drive.google.com...
drive.google.com...

a reply to: FriscoPaul

Collin County is corrupt as hell.

4 years ago I went to the emergency room for treatment. They not only failed to treat me, but I was jumped and choked by a male EMT (a foot taller and literally 200 lbs heavier) I did my best to get away from him. In the melee his glasses broke and his cheek got scratched. I ended up with permanently disabling PTSD.

The ER security turned the surveillance footage over to the police (told to me by the head of security). A month after the incident, after being treated at another hospital and finally cleared by a doctor to try to handle the situation I called Plano PD. I went in person to their headquarters. I told them I wanted to press assault charges on the EMT. The only witness to this whole incident- and the only other person in the room- was my friend, Matt. The police refused to even talk to him. The surveillance footage was conveniently lost. Their reports stated that I called them multiple times and came in person but then they concluded that they 'couldn't get a hold of me'. Bullsh*t. (conspiracy between Collin County and Dallas PD, but that's a whole other thread)

Five months after the fact they charged ME with assault.

I made arrangements with a bail bonds place, paid hundreds of dollars, voluntarily did a 'walk through', sat half a day in jail, had my mug shot plastered online, and had to report to the bail bonds place every Thursday for the next YEAR AND A HALF. I reported to court multiple times and things just kept getting reset. This was the one and only time I'd ever been in trouble with the law- not even a traffic ticket turned warrant. And I fought it every step of the way. I kept telling my public defender to take it to trial. Until, right when the statute of limitations was up they dropped the charge.

Did I get an apology? Hell no. Did I get any money refunded? Hell no. Was there any retraction in the paper saying I was innocent? Hell no. Did they EVER press charges on the p.o.s. that attacked me? Hell no. Thousands of tax payer dollars wasted because of some backdoor deal between Collin County and Dallas PD (Dallas PD effed up big time and the only thing they could do to cover their tracks was to discredit me, and it worked like a charm). And this is just ONE story. How many other people have had to go through some BS like this?

If a meteor fell out of the sky and wiped out Dallas and Collin County, the world would be a better place.


Good luck trying to get your story out. No one will listen. Good luck with filing complaints to the Texas Rangers or the Justice Department. They'll just ignore you. Don't even bother trying to file any complaints with Collin County or whatever LE department was involved. It will go nowhere. Good luck trying to go to the Texas Attorney General, or governor, or media....they'll all ignore you too. People think the system is bad, but it's ever so much worse than the average person can imagine. Until it happens to you. And you're left standing with your dick swinging in the wind, all alone and totally boned. Not one avenue available to even attempt to set things straight. PM me if you need a support group. Been there, done that.

a reply to: JesseVentura

(yawn).. police associations warned against lowering hiring standards and 3 strikes laws... but ya didn't listen. You're getting the political correctness & prison industrial complex policies cops warned were going to suck.

originally posted by: GovtFlu
a reply to: JesseVentura
(yawn).. police associations warned against lowering hiring standards and 3 strikes laws... but ya didn't listen. You're getting the political correctness & prison industrial complex policies cops warned were going to suck.

Police association leadership and their PROMOTION STANDARDS are the problem, particularly leadership that was not old enough to have been drafted into the Vietnam War. I am specifically calling out the current LEO leaders, that were born after 1951 and were not old enough to have been eligible for the last draft lottery, happening in 1969. This age cohort is almost entirely at fault for causing the problems we are seeing today.

If you look at how cops are selected and then consider the mini-boot camp process that they go through, its easy to see why typical LEO's are so screwed up in the community relations aspects of their jobs. One example, where I feel the typical "academy certificate" process is inadequate, is in the eventual selection of "detectives". Sure, the "academy certificate", mini-boot camp, may be adequate for selecting beat cops and SWAT, but on the flip side of that process, it will almost always eliminate the types of people that would eventually become GREAT detectives, whom actually have the ability to solves crimes. Once you really think about how some beat cops move up, SOLELY FOR HIGHER PAY, to eventually become detectives, its very easy to see why LEO's across the country seem to be having increasing troubles solving crimes.

A few other deficient LEO candidate selection areas are the Explosives Units and K-9 Handlers. Imagine a situation where a COMBAT veteran, who's done a tour or two, as an EOD or K-9 handler, returns to civilian life by entering an LEO career. Once they successfully have gotten hired as an LEO, this EXPERIENCED person would then have to serve 3+ years as a beat cop, before they would be eligible to APPLY for the Explosives or K-9 units. What a HUGE WASTE of previous DOCUMENTED training and service time, letting hundreds of thousands of dollars of previous training costs, GO STALE, while this experienced person WAITS, to merely become eligible to APPLY for a job that they have 75%+ of the training completed already! The typical LEO promotion and Specialty Unit selection processes are a JOKE in the United States! Tax paying citizens should be both outraged and ashamed of its mere existence.

Also the country had a far larger population of soldiers with PTSD after WWII ended, returning to civilian life and public sector employment, mostly without recorded incident. Same goes for the period after the Vietnam War and as we know, few of these guys got psychiatric treatment of any kind, ESPECIALLY when compared to the treatment options soldiers have available today. I can't even begin to imagine what those soldiers saw while serving in WWI, WWII and Vietnam, versus what soldiers are experiencing today.

WWI: 4.7 million troops sent over the course of 1 year
WWII: 16.1 million troops sent over a 4 year period
Korean War: 5.7 million troops sent over a 3 year period
Vietnam War: 8.7 million sent over a 20 year period
Desert Storm: 2.3 million sent over the course of 1 year
Iraq & Afghanistan: 2.5 million sent over a 13 year period

Note the number of troops that actually saw combat, versus those that were combat support positions and were actually in harms way, has decrease significantly from each conflict to the next.

Although I am not old enough to have dealt with, first hand, police officers that served in WWII, I am old enough to have dealt with LEO's that served in Vietnam. In contrast, to contemporary LEO's, I NEVER ONCE felt in danger when dealing with an LEO that was old enough to have been drafted into the Vietnam War (those born on or before 1951, with the last draft lottery happening in 1969), even when I was completely in the wrong and assumed to be breaking the law.

Today, every interaction with LEO's could potential wind up being my last day on earth. That was UNTHINKABLE when Vietnam Vets were running the show. The worst thing that would happen to you, when they were in charge, was a good beating and a night in jail.

The current leaders among LEO departments across the country, are younger boomers that were not old enough to have gone to Vietnam and they have taught young officers to be completely unethical in their dealing with the general public.

Civilians should not trust the motivations of LEO's and must always assume that their lives are in danger, with EVERY interaction they have with LEO's.

Why? Not because ALL LEO's are bad, but because ALL LEO's are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians, as they see fit.

Why should civilians take any risk of death, when its far easier to simply not interact with, refuse to help and actively avoid contact with LEO's, whom are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians, as they see fit?

If these LEO's that killed civilians, really cared and were not sociopaths, they'd quit the job as soon as they killed someone on accident, even if legally cleared eventually. Note, very few, if ANY, of these officers "protecting & serving" have left their positions or the profession out of "guilt" for their crimes or mistakes. The fact that they just suck it up and keep on driving, assures me that they are NOT sane. It is nothing like being in the military, where you can be jailed and prosecuted for not following a legal command to "kill the enemy", during a period of war, ordered by the Commander-in-Chief.

LEO's CAN QUIT ANYTIME THEY WANT TO and when they don't resign after doing something unconscionable, it strongly suggests that they are dangerous to the public. So when these LEO's keep working in the same role, after killing a civilian, I can't help but assume that the individual is a sociopath, out for the "power of the position" and not to "protect & serve" civilians.

This can be seen in two different ways, not all cops are a threat, sometimes citizens and civilians act in such a way because of their previous bad encounters with the law that cops has to take certain measures.