A Question For Gay People

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: zerozero00
a reply to: stolencar18

I know straight guys that are camp and straight girls that are butch...what's your point really?

People are people are...just that!

Your post just smacks of ignorance, sorry to sound blunt

Be fair, you can't call the OP ignorant. They are making enquiries that is all. That seems a bit steep. Why did you not just make your point, which is actually a good point, without undue dissing of the OP?

You do know what the term "ignorance" means , yes ? It actually means unlearned on a subject matter. Thus the exact reason for this thread

Carry on....

a reply to: Annee

I'm not talking about the trans guy, I'm talking about his partner.

originally posted by: lifecitizen
a reply to: Annee

I'm not talking about the trans guy, I'm talking about his partner.

The link didn't work. Need more info. Are they both men?

Attraction to same sex is homosexual. Attraction to opposite sex is heterosexual.

Transgender would be which gender person transitioned to. Female to Male would make him a male. Sexual orientation is in the brain, not the physical packaging. So technically if they are both males - homosexual. Not that it matters.

I think I remember this. The f/m transgender was pre-op. Still had female organs.

Surgery is not a requirement. It is an option of choice.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Didn't you know his cushion was replaced a couple seasons ago?

To the OP: you are my hero, bravely going there, here, on ATS. I respect that. Knowledge is powerful stuff!

As the captain of this boa...er...thread...I promise I will sink with it!

Probably.

a reply to: Annee

Oh sorry, I will link to another site.

www.nydailynews.com...

Yes, they're both men- one trans- female to male. And yes still had female organs.

Youre right it doesnt matter, I just couldnt work it out.



ETA- I did think surgery was a personal choice.

a reply to: zerozero00

I think you may be being naive. Many of these "butch" girls and "feminine" men actually go out of their way to do it. Many literally change. Of course some people are naturally this way, but I'm wondering why some make the choice.

You know what's neat? Understanding things beyond your own immediate world. You should try it some time.

Which brings up another point....Why hasn't anyone really answered? Lots of info about people naturally leaning one way or another, but no one really brave enough to talk about why gay people CHOOSE to act/dress/sound like/look like the opposite sex when they hope to attract the same sex?

The one guy whining about me being homophobic...meh...Carry on. I think it may actually be more strange that you refuse to admit that people choose to behave certain ways. So in the example of your "camp" friend, and you not thinking it's right to ask, I agree. I wouldn't ask any of the gay people I know. That's why I'm posting it in a general forum so people can CHOOSE to answer. I don't think it's wrong to be butch/feminine. I think it's interesting. To me it almost seems counter intuitive. If I was a gay man, wanting to attract a gay man, I would want that gay man to be attracted to me as a man. Perhaps I am naive...what am I missing? Do some gay men want gay men to be attracted to them as women? I know that's taking it a step too far, but to make my point I had to go there.

Oh and if you want to whine that I'm ignorant again, by all means. Have at it

a reply to: stolencar18


Ummm...okay...in a nutshell here goes...Feminine gay guys and masculine lesbian gals are kinda wired to be that way much as ANNEE stated many many times...however she nor anyone else has answered your questions...

This is my opinion for what it's worth...These people you speak of gender identify as the opposite sex and are potential sex change candidates who either can't/wont go through with the procedure for whatever reason...or are on a waiting list to do so...Probably much to the future chagrin of their current partner........or not...

Let's also remember chimera and hermaphroditic characteristics for a moment...if we consider only partial as in hormonal/genetic hermaphroditic/chimeric characteristics within the context of sexuality..then one can surmise that percentages of this group as per the parameters in the OP may be carrying these characteristics and expressing themselves in a most natural way due to their mixed/partial genetic predisposition...NOTE: I did not say inherited I merely was speaking to mixed sexual characteristics that occur naturally in the setting of partial hermaphroditic/chimeric interfaces within the host organism...as relates to expressionism...

There...OP...I think I've answered your question...
Remember...this isn't a fault reduction...rather an effort to explain that humans come in many varieties and many of those varieties are sexual in nature...These people are as they are...and deserve our respect and compassion...not ridicule and belittling...



YouSir

The pairing of masculine and feminine is built into the fabric of life on this planet (and presumably others). We gravitate toward this pairing so strongly that it manifests itself even in same-sex relationships.

No one likes to talk about that because of the obvious implications.

originally posted by: lifecitizen
a reply to: Annee

Oh sorry, I will link to another site.

www.nydailynews.com...

Yes, they're both men- one trans- female to male. And yes still had female organs.

Youre right it doesnt matter, I just couldnt work it out.

ETA- I did think surgery was a personal choice.

Cool.

Just remember sexual orientation comes from the brain. Makes it less confusing.

originally posted by: NthOther
The pairing of masculine and feminine is built into the fabric of life on this planet (and presumably others). We gravitate toward this pairing so strongly that it manifests itself even in same-sex relationships.

No one likes to talk about that because of the obvious implications.

Its interesting how so many people skirt around this issue. Hundreds of people on ATS have no problem talking about government corruption or evil cops or bad soldiers or *insert controversial topic here* but when it comes to a question about a trait exhibited by some LGBT people they shy away like the gay mafia will chase them down. Grow a pair...

Somehow that last line seems to fit this thread better than I intended...

a reply to: stolencar18

From a butch sounding and looking gay man (even my best friends still find it hard to believe I'm gay)
I have to say OP that I have always wondered the same thing to all 3 of your questions, and unfortunately I don't have any answers for you.

Even when I start to theorise about it, I just get confused and give up.

I hope you find your answer in this thread, I'm going back to read the other pages now.

Snf

Edit: OK, having read others posts and thinking more about it, I guess you could say a lot of the time that feminine gay guys prefer the bottom (receiving role) whereas the butch gay guys prefer to be the top. But even this is not set in stone, it can still vary in so many ways. I guess it's a really diverse subject that will never have any simple answers.

I think the big problem is the stereotypes of what is considered 'masculine' and 'feminine' and how people conform to them.

I'm a guy, but I like to cook in the kitchen, I happily do my part of housework, I hate repairs to the house or car, I don't grill, I don't hunt.

My wife likes football more than me, she likes to fish. Several of my female co-workers like to hunt and go camping.

In many ways people who insist on stereotypical rolls would say I'm more feminine than my wife, and my coworkers are more masculine than me or other men.

We all have different likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with our biology.

In the end, it comes back to biology. This is when *I* get to be blunt:

The common denominator of 'masculine' is to have a penis and experience a hormonal drive to stick it into a woman's vagina and experience orgasm.

The common denominator of 'feminine' is to have a vagina and experience a hormonal drive to let a man stick his penis in and experience orgasm.

That's how our species works. This is how we make baby humans. Take it or leave it. The rest is just deviations from the norm.

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: zerozero00

I think you may be being naive. Many of these "butch" girls and "feminine" men actually go out of their way to do it. Many literally change. Of course some people are naturally this way, but I'm wondering why some make the choice.

I suspect fitting into society took priority over being their natural self.

That would be the behavior CHOICE you keep wanting an answer to. Not the other way around.

And that has been answered by posters other then me.

You need to check your reading comprehension. Unless you don't really want an answer.

originally posted by: NthOther
The pairing of masculine and feminine is built into the fabric of life on this planet (and presumably others). We gravitate toward this pairing so strongly that it manifests itself even in same-sex relationships.

No one likes to talk about that because of the obvious implications.

You wanna try to clarify that.

Because it doesn't make much sense.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

That's how our species works. This is how we make baby humans. Take it or leave it. The rest is just deviations from the norm.

We are ALL mutations from the first homosapien.

Would we prefer Michelangelo (and others like him) stick it to a woman for breeding purposes, rather then give the world what they did?

Maybe we really need to broaden our concept of human purpose and what "normal" means.

originally posted by: Annee
I'm going to try to give you a serious answer.

Science has found sexuality is very complicated. It is not just male-female. It is all shades of gray.

Source?

originally posted by: OhOkYeah

originally posted by: Annee
I'm going to try to give you a serious answer.

Science has found sexuality is very complicated. It is not just male-female. It is all shades of gray.

Source?

Sorry, have not kept a datalog of 20+ years of reading and researching.

I don't care if you accept it or not.

I have no idea why they want to talk like that. There are some rare types that aren't anything like that, those are the gay guys that I like, people can be surprising. I got hit on out in the country in a gun shop by a fat red neck dude. I flirted with him and tried to get a deal and he gave me 15% off. The thing that gets me is that so many married men secretly go out and do things with men. I have 3 very straight male friends and their dads are openly gay and were married to a woman at one time, ones dad had 4 wives. I guess that's what it is like being bi. I also know some gay guys that just will never come out and no one would ever even think they were, there are no signs. I do think it comes out a little more when guys get older. I have one gay friend that talks normal most of the time but sometimes he gets lispy and its embarrassing in public when he transforms to sissy mouth. Im not into a "typical" anything, so I do believe there are typical gay guys that follow the Barbara Streisandish/petshop boys iconic gay lifestyle and some roll their eyes and hate that stuff. I do not understand Bruce Gender wanting to be a lesbian, yes I understand wanting to be a woman but not a woman that supposedly like women, don't get it. I also enjoyed the movie "Kinsey" , I highly recommend it. I also do not understand why a woman likes a woman but likes a woman that looks and acts like a man, why not just be with a man ? but I just accept that everyone predominantly is different and I am so glad there are gay, lesbian and transgenders because it takes the spotlight off of me, because Im worse than all of them, Im just flat out insane..

originally posted by: Foderalover
I have no idea why they want to talk like that. There are some rare types that aren't anything like that, those are the gay guys that I like, people can be surprising.

Rare types?

You mean because they are unnoticeable from hetero men? They are probably the majority.

The stereotype feminine gay is probably the minority.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OhOkYeah

originally posted by: Annee
I'm going to try to give you a serious answer.

Science has found sexuality is very complicated. It is not just male-female. It is all shades of gray.

Source?

Sorry, have not kept a datalog of 20+ years of reading and researching.

I don't care if you accept it or not.

That's what I thought.

I see these claims constantly that science supports the "gender fluid" theory. I've yet to see even 1 shred of scientific evidence along with those claims.

I do know that there are a range of mental disorders related to gender dysphoria.