The soul, the self & I

a reply to: Peeple

To my perspective, it is a bit like mind over matter but not quite in the way that saying is normally understood.

I think a good example would be moving a pencil. For us to move the pencil say, a foot to the right, we simply reach out, pick it up, move our arm, and then set it down. A process that is easily seen as mundane or perhaps even meaningless.

Now, lets take the same example, but eliminate the sentient being. Completing the goal of moving that pencil becomes a completely different ballgame. It can still be accomplished, but it will require an indirect influence. Meaning, the ground will need to shake, or the wind blow, etc. and the chances of it moving exactly a foot are minimal (but possible).

I believe this simple example points to a relationship that is taken for granted. Its really something quite incredible in my mind. I also feel that it is a relationship that we have only begun to explore, at best.

Then, as you began to talk about, our minds create a consistent interface with 'reality.' But, perhaps this consistent framework doesn't encompass our full perception, much less reality as a whole. That opens up a lot of fascinating possibilities for who we are, who we can be, and what it means to be human.

It might even be that sentience (as we know it) evolves to perform nuanced, precise, focused tasks that are highly inefficient, or even impossible, to accomplish any other way. If that is the case, we haven't even begun to understand our purpose or how to "responsibly" go about it all. Its so far removed from the paradigms of nearly all narratives, spiritual or otherwise, that we could only start working towards it over the ensuing generations.

I think the interesting and frustrating aspect is that our current paradigm isn't the most effective or efficient. If we use something like greed as the motivating factor, our current methods of satiating it are far from the best. We seem more concerned with holding each other back than anything, even if it means a lowered quality of life for everyone including the wealthiest.

a reply to: midicon

There is no question of 'got it', that would imply that it can be known.
But i saw where he wanted to go, what he wanted those who listened to him, to explore and find out for themselves, not leaning on any authority, not even him as the speaker.

This is with good reason, unless one finds out for himself, whatever there is to find out, one remains dependant on gurus, teachers, leaders and doctrines for answers.

a reply to: earthling42

This is with good reason, unless one finds out for himself, whatever there is to find out, one remains dependant on gurus, teachers, leaders and doctrines for answers.

I have no questions.

I joined this thread to have a conversation with Itisnowagain but it didn't happen. Silly of me really.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Regards midicon

a reply to: Serdgiam

Just as we build our own legends, or myths through art. Every bit we imagine becomes a stone in the pyramid we build. A pretty powerfull thing if you think about it.
Wasn't there a saying, be carefull what you wish for? It should be what you imagine to be, too. Because confirmation bias is also something very powerfull.
The old legends slowly start to be replaced by aliens, like the stories surrounding odd landmarks once the myths around it were gods or spirits, now they are about aliens. Could be dangerous to narrow that variety of stories, but than again it is maybe just part of a natural evolution?
Agreed about the part with the intention to be important. Every magician learns that egoistic goals come back to bite you.

a reply to: Peeple

We really do construct our cultural story at a level that affects our perspective, bias, and reactions to stimuli. I think our next biggest step would be to start writing it consciously. As of now, it is well described as a background hum that is an instrisic, but unseen, part of our daily life. It may also be the case that some DO write this cultural story intentionally to subvert the ability of the general population to do so themselves.

Confirmation bias truly is powerful. It is a very real force to be reckoned with, especially when an individual believes they are immune (which seems to becoming much, much more common in recent years). All an enterprising manipulator needs to do is present something in a way that will confirm bias through either acceptance or rejection. Then, attach a piece of information (propaganda) that they wish to introduce to the narrative. Neurological processes will do the rest, and over time, it is possible to construct a widely spread story that social groups will inevitably accept as fact.

Its really too bad, tragic even, that this is used for control rather than building a roadmap for humanity.

Ego is an interesting thing, isn't it? Depending on how one perceives their sense of self, the story can change drastically. If an individual sees life in general as an extension of themselves, 'selfish' acts will be the polar opposite of a 'selfish' individual that perceives themselves as entirely independent and disconnected from the world around them. The intent by both could be completely ego-filled and selfish, but our stories and narratives will define one as selfless and the other selfish. What a tangled web we weave!

a reply to: Peeple

So if you lose your "self" then you will return to a world of pure energy, that is itself a uniting constant, being that the "energy" substantiates as the same substance, the "substance" that you lose upon "death" will "return" to the "bank" of all the "substance" that has escaped the confines of the "self".

Totally, if this applies to everybody, then this "substance" is what substantiates as existence and those whom are bound to "selves" are living in a partial illusion.

That is very neat because it means that there is no actual "death" - just a hurdle called the "self" that one must acknowledge to be "in-substantiate".

Thus, it means in my vernacular that those whom have "selves" have simply forgotten that they are beyond these "selves" and thus are living in some kind of illusion.

Ahh I was resisting temptation for a reason apparently...

a reply to: Serdgiam

That was truly beautiful. Especially the part with the ego. Thanks for contributing!

a reply to: SystemResistor

You make it sound like death is something to wish for? But i disagree, because the self is an unique beautiful thing too and maybe the others loose some important influences and insights if it leaves too soon.
But yes for the soul which is the connection to Sophia there is no end, just a new beginning, or a transformation.