This is NOT a gun problem, and if you relax that knee, you'll understand.

Nvm

I think what we have here is not so much of a "gun control" issue (although that needs to exist for understandable reasons) but a "heart of the human being" issue. What we are capable of can be so extreme on so many levels. I have no idea what compels one to kill another but I believe the condition of the heart is where it starts. That being said, no amount of "control" in any form is going to soften the hearts of humans. The true Christian God ( not the human version, but the real one. The one we claim to know and understand but can't fully understand with our human minds) is the only one that can do that. Remove him and you have hearts of stone. Imo......



a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: Passerby1996
a reply to: Klassified

It's not only poverty I was talking about, though. There's also the huge variable of discrimination (against race, culture, religion, political allegiance, etc ...). Switzerland is probably the most "uniform" in terms of potential levels of discrimination. This means that there's not much to really discriminate against at all, hence the lack of any violent reprisals. They are also not a prime target for terrorists, as they don't contain many major cities whatsoever and don't make up a large amount of the global GDP.

Jamaica is completely different. While guns were banned, nothing else was done to quell the variables of poverty and discrimination. Thus, violence went through the roof. Political organizations were formed to combat anyone who disagreed with them, and they brought guns internationally to fight these opponents. It's an example of taking the starting leap into a race when the gun goes off (pun not intended), but not running the rest of the race.

You're kinda nullifying your own points from my perspective. Everything you just laid out is the very reason this isn't about guns. It has more much more to do with the racial, religious, and socio-political factors involved. If these issues are addressed, then the presence of guns make no difference. Switzerland is an example of that.

But guns cannot do a damn thing by themselves. They need an operator.

But if the operator didnt have a gun he wouldnt be able to shoot someone would he?

In Paris, the citizens don't have guns like US. But there was still two major shootings there. California has very strict gun laws, but there was still a mass shooting there. All done by radical Muslims.

What about all the places in the world where they dont have guns like the US where there wasnt any major shooting? Why would you bring up those incidents like they are the norm?

And before you bring gun control into this thread, answer this one question, what law would have prevented any of these recent shootings?

Why isnt this happening every second of every minuet of the day then? The fact is laws make it difficult for people to pull this kind of stuff off. Sometimes people slip through the net but for the most part its working.

If on the other hand stuff like this was happening every other week like in the US it would be clear the laws are not working and would need tightening up..like in the US.

originally posted by: network dude


And before you bring gun control into this thread, answer this one question, what law would have prevented any of these recent shootings?

I don't know the answer. You live in a sick society: Of course it's a gun problem

a reply to: Klassified

It isn't some free for all gun culture out, they have gun control laws that we would think are draconian.
They don't have near the concealed carry we have, and they control their ammo.
www.politifact.com...

The government issues a gun to men for their mandatory military service, but the gun is taken home under "carefully controlled conditions without ammunition," said Mikton, the WHO officer who is also Swiss.

Swiss gun laws are more strict than the post implies, though less tough than some other European Union countries. Swiss law requires mandatory background checks on civilian handgun purchases and licenses for the concealed carry of weapons, and it bans automatic weapons.

Their laws wouldn't even fly in some of the states.

While you're at it, explain Jamaica in the 70's. Also explain why crime is at a low in the U.S. right now?

There is no direct link to guns being the cause of that, it is a correlation but not a causation.

And gun free zones have not be targeted, almost all the shooters had some sort of connection to the target, not chosen solely for the lack of guns.
This most recent would be another case of that, it was his place of work.

The Beards - Beards Don't Kill People, People With Beards Kill People


Just saying. You can take our beards, but you can never take our freedom!

Oh, wait, you already did...

Someone posted this on facebook and I think it's quite pertinent:

NOW we'll see some action

350+ shootings this year so far, more than one per day. Of those, 99.99% were carried out by murderous nuts in wide variety, some were white and some black and some were other, some were Left and some were Right and some fit into neither category nor any other for that matter, some were certifiably crazy and were just a bit odd and some were stone cold sane, some were young, some were old, some were Christians, some were atheists, some had a grudge and others heard voices and some did it for God and still others just did it for the sport, some were loners and some were the life of the party, some made their intentions clear and others ... well, we'll never know the reason for their rampage.

And we did nothing.

No matter how horrific the slaughter, we did nothing. We rationalized. We raged. We ran around in circles waving our arms (and you can take that last however you like). We prayed and offered up empty platitudes, best wishes, our thoughts are with the victims boo hoo hoo. We clutched our guns tight, and damned the loons, the socialists, the commies, the gun grabbing Nazis, and that Obama. # happens we said, or more specially this kind of # happens every day in America. We don't know why and we don't know how to stop it and the only thing we're sure of is that daily mass shootings are a side effect of liberty. Praise Jesus and pass the ammunition.

But now?

Ah, now it looks like it was Muslims.

Finally, VINDICATION! At long last, that moment they warned us about! We're under attack! Oh they warned us, they did. Time to up armor, time to load out, we're gonna need a database and background checks and more goddamned guns! Boy oh boy, finally, here it is.

350 something incidents, one per day. Nothing. # happens. Price of freedom.

But now? NOW you'll see some goddamned action, you bet.

a reply to: Passerby1996

Umm I would hazard a guess that coutries with more cars have more car-related deaths, and countries with more poisonous snakes have more poisonous snake related deaths, too. And unless I am woefully misunderstanding the world's weather, Antarctica likely has the LEAST lightning related deaths of anywhere.

Here are some other fun facts:
Mass Shootings under the Last Five Presidents

Ronald Reagan: 1981-1989 (8 years) 11 mass shootings
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 5

George H. W. Bush: 1989-1993 (4 years) 12 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 3

Bill Clinton: 1993-2001 (8 years) 23 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 4

George W. Bush: 2001-2009 (8 years) 20 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 5

Barrack H. Obama: 2009-2015 (in 7th year) 162 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 18

Interesting isn't it?

a reply to: aorAki

I'll say it even if others won't. There is something different about Islamic terrorism and muslim extremists. I think most Americans are angered and repulsed by all killers of innocent people and condemn them all.

But, most of those "mass killings" your email attempts to use as examples are gang on gang crap, and quite frankly, let them kill each other all day long. Maybe they will wipe each other out altogether. I take the Darwinian approach to thug-on-thug killings. Some other killers are mentally ill people or on some kind of pharmaceutical cocktail. We need to deal with mental health issues much much better than we do.

But, the muslim extremists are different somehow. Look all over the world to get an idea of what I mean. It is a network of a particular kind of ideology that condones the killing of "infidels"....and everybody is an infidel! They infiltrate purposely. They use social media, travel to ME countries, organize, plot, plan, map, use coded websites, then self-radicalize sometimes overnight.

People know this in their gut.

Yet another "guns don't kill people wwappers do" thread.

355th mass shooting in america this year. 1 a day. Enough said.

If you didn't have easy access to guns this would not happen. Period, regardless of the poor excuses.
Yes it's the culture, a culture stemming from gun policies. If you genuinely believe they would just use knifes and baseball bats like many have stated before there is no hope for you unfortunately.

"But the criminals will find guns".....of course they will. What a stupid stupid perspective. Of course they will. It's the same for every single country. Childish mindset in my opinion.

And you take away guns, knife crime will go up. Of course it will. Where to people get off on pointing out the obvious by products of such an initiative.

So many more points but just another deja vu thread.

Yet another "guns don't kill people wwappers do" thread.

355th mass shooting in america this year. 1 a day. Enough said.

If you didn't have easy access to guns this would not happen. Period, regardless of the poor excuses.
Yes it's the culture, a culture stemming from gun policies. If you genuinely believe they would just use knifes and baseball bats like many have stated before there is no hope for you unfortunately.

"But the criminals will find guns".....of course they will. What a stupid stupid perspective. Of course they will. It's the same for every single country. Childish mindset in my opinion.

And you take away guns, knife crime will go up. Of course it will. Where to people get off on pointing out the obvious by products of such an initiative.

So many more points but just another deja vu thread.

a reply to: Klassified

It seems like that, but what I'm trying to say is that attempting to change a culture is much more difficult than trying to simply take away people's guns.

In other words, restricting gun ownership is the FIRST step. The next step is changing a society's violent tendencies.

a reply to: queenofswords

They are a guerilla army without a flag that uses another religious group to move about more or less freely because that religious body recognizes the teaching of the Umma or brotherhood of the faith.

originally posted by: Passerby1996
a reply to: Klassified

It seems like that, but what I'm trying to say is that attempting to change a culture is much more difficult than trying to simply take away people's guns.

In other words, restricting gun ownership is the FIRST step. The next step is changing a society's violent tendencies.

No.

It won't work that way, but I'm pretty sure you have a line of thought in common with the Prohibition Era teetotalers.

a reply to: rossacus

Wrong....data shows France has had more mass shooting deaths in 2015 than USA in the last 7.

France also has some of the strictest gun laws in the world....

So no you are just plain wrong.

a reply to: BlueJacket

You planning on posting any of that data by any chance?

a reply to: ketsuko

Couldn't agree more. Suspect it also stems from a serious shortage of broad based life experience

I truly truly do not understand the ones that continue to compare apples and oranges, the U.S. to Britain and other European countries.

I do not understand the inability to comprehend or the outright stupidity involved that does not realize that 99.9999 per cent of American gun owners never even think about killing someone.

I do not understand people that cannot comprehend the fact that this is a country of well over 350,000,000 citizens and millions of others that are here illegally. We are spread out over a vast area. We have lots of freedom and pretty much go about our daily lives unhindered. There is every culture and nationality on the planet here.

We are not as homogenous as most other countries. We are not easily controlled because we are protected against the over-reaching arm of the federal government...so far.

The People will deal with these attacks and we don't need our Bill of Rights removed, altered, nor infringed upon in order to do so.