Young whites' are losing faith in the American Dream

a reply to: NewzNose

Lol... you just read my mind read my post we must have posted at the same time...lol

a reply to: infolurker

My stepson has had more jobs (employers) in the last 2 years than I have had in my entire life.

Thats not necessary a bad thing in the corporate cluster F world.
From what I have seen it is far easier to move up and make BIG (15%+) pay grade jumps by switching companies rather than by being loyal for your current corporate employer.

Showing that you got options rather than loyalty appears to be a winning combination to financially succeed depending on the need of your skill level.

They also seem more than happy to be dead broke. If they can cover their basics, they have little desire to improve and they are not greedy for overtime like we were at that age.

I find this interesting and I would imagine that would be a VERY scary thing to catch on among the consumers from a Corporate run world. Nothing worst than having content consumers. Worst yet a worker pool that is not desperate enough to break their backs for others.

I know what you are trying to say but at the same time I see power in being content with what you got as long as you are planing for the future. Sadly I'm pretty sure they are not thinking about the future. However, If they were, that mentality could be a real threat to the establishment and this consumer driven economy.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Throwing down the race baiting card here as this thread is about race, which the American dream has nothing to do with.

No, it's just an article on how young White people feel.
How the heck is that racist?

a reply to: wasaka

The economy is growing at a slightly slower pace, but not by much. And yet young workers today are significantly more pessimistic about the possibility of success in America than their counterparts were in 1986.

There's an interesting website called The People History which describes events by year, including average home prices. In 1970, the average home price was less than $25,000..... In 1986, the average home price was just about $90,000.... in 2012, the average home price was over $260,000.

In terms of rent, the average rent in 1970 was $140 per month... In 1986, it was $385... and in 2012, it was $1045.

Speaking to housing specifically, because it is the greatest living expense, we have completely priced most of the population out of a home, and today, more "investors" own homes than people just trying to live and raise a family. My own kids have excellent work ethics and have worked their way into management positions, and we helped them with their college/training costs to make sure they didn't have to go into debt. But both are struggling to save to buy a home, with home prices rising faster than they can save, and rent going up each year as well, not to mention food, gas, etc.

We all have good reason to be losing faith in the future.

a reply to: interupt42

I find this interesting and I would imagine that would be a VERY scary thing to catch on among the consumers from a Corporate run world. Nothing worst than having content consumers. Worst yet a worker pool that is not desperate enough to break their backs for others.

I have had exactly the same thought. We -- as a society -- are constantly forced into a corporate-run world where we are dependent on government, big business, big pharma, etc., and must consume! Self-sufficient, independent, resourceful people who can grow and prepare their own food, repair their own appliances and vehicles, treat their own illnesses, and otherwise take care of themselves without government and/or corporate dependency has become almost impossible in today's world. And heaven forbid folks should actually be content and happy doing so!!!

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: wasaka

The economy is growing at a slightly slower pace, but not by much. And yet young workers today are significantly more pessimistic about the possibility of success in America than their counterparts were in 1986.

There's an interesting website called The People History which describes events by year, including average home prices. In 1970, the average home price was less than $25,000..... In 1986, the average home price was just about $90,000.... in 2012, the average home price was over $260,000.

In terms of rent, the average rent in 1970 was $140 per month... In 1986, it was $385... and in 2012, it was $1045.

Speaking to housing specifically, because it is the greatest living expense, we have completely priced most of the population out of a home, and today, more "investors" own homes than people just trying to live and raise a family. My own kids have excellent work ethics and have worked their way into management positions, and we helped them with their college/training costs to make sure they didn't have to go into debt. But both are struggling to save to buy a home, with home prices rising faster than they can save, and rent going up each year as well, not to mention food, gas, etc.

We all have good reason to be losing faith in the future.

I think this is what a lot of people don't realize. Everything is dramatically more expensive, for example food. Everyone needs insurance for everything. Cell phones and Internet are pretty much required these days. Daycare costs have skyrocketed. I mean I could go on all day. The one thing that hasn't skyrocketed is wages and that's the problem.

a reply to: wasaka

I haven't read the thread, so I apologize if this has been discussed.

I really like your post. As regards the various races, I think the playing field has been somewhat leveled out in the past 50 years and that's why white people now see success though the same lenses that everyone else does. Plus, it's HARDER for ANYONE to make it in today's world! I feel a great deal of compassion for anyone coming up in this world today.

Another facet of "the American Dream" is that - If you do the right thing, study, work hard and be diligent, you will be rewarded. That used to be true, but is pretty much BS today. This country is circling the drain. For the most part, the only people who are being rewarded are the ones who are willing to 'sell their soul' and do the wrong thing, use other people, be dishonest and play the system.

It comes down to a choice. Do you want to be honorable and struggle? Or be deceitful and win? This isn't 100% true, as there are good people who become successful and there are "bad people" who just can't make it work. But speaking generally, the people in high places are not to be trusted, IMO.

Interestingly, I wasn't at all offended by your 'black jargon'... I got a chuckle out of it. It didn't seem to be an insult at all. Maybe it's not PC (and everyone's looking to be offended), but it sure didn't strike me as insulting.

The American dreams now belongs to those that are immigrants and refugees, they get to enjoy what America have to offer.

For the rest of us the tax payer and voters is nothing but work, work, don't complain and pay your taxes.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I have noticed the same change in business ethics over the years.
30 years ago I could do jobs for several thousand dollars with a handshake.
Nowadays you're more liable to be ripped off instead.
I've seen how those who connive, blame others, lie about themselves are the ones who succeed financially.
Lawyers and salesmen will say anything to win their case or make a sale.
There was a time when salesmen would be honest and tell you of any potential problems.
We are victims of our own greed, we've gone far beyond competition for the basics of life and now claw and bite our way up the ladder as far as we can go.
I find it very saddening that our National character has become what it is these days.
We've lost our integrity, honesty and love for our fellow beings.

a reply to: wasaka

I'm a 30 year old millennial who is starting to make good money in the IT industry. Just saying.

Decade of nite school starting in Spring. It's gonna take 15 years for me to build a fortune, but the American dream is alive and well if you pick the right things to spend your time on. I'll live under my means build a pot and know how to increase it more effectively through work experience and coursework. No pessimism here.

24 year old Canadian male and university drop out here! Dropped out due to financial issues not because the schooling was hard. The issue was it was to expensive for too little and I couldn't see myself going anywhere but down the way the student loans were stacking up.


Started at the bottom as the towns dump attendant. Now I make every drop of tap water for my towns consumption. Took a few years but hard work show and my bosses seen that so I moved up the ladder with haste.

My Canadian dream is alive and well.



a reply to: wasaka

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
We've lost our integrity, honesty and love for our fellow beings.

Great post. Yes. As a nation, we have lost those things and it shows. I learned a long time ago that the old adages didn't apply today. If I work hard, do the right thing and be diligent, and expect an external reward for it, I'll likely be disappointed. But if I do it all because it's the right thing to do, my reward is in the knowledge that I have chosen right over wrong. In my mind. And that's pretty much where I live. So, that's what matters.

a reply to: wasaka

American Dream

What dream...was it ever attainable...was it a 'manufactered" ideal? Something to stop the peasants storming the Bastille!
Theres a reason they dont push maths in schools; inflation is seen as a fait accompli and not as a Govt tool that inflates away Govt debt burdening future generations. We're on a collison course and there'll be gnashing of teeth and hair pulling...by the intelligentsia saying they didnt see the Big Crash coming.

Its time the Bastille was stormed again...but a few more billion in tax cuts/spending will be thrown at the middle class, their properties value slowly rising...they'll keep getting cheap consumer goods to keep them distracted...
Untill.........

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Heck yea I expect an external reward! Not gonna waste time being a teacher or probation officer thinking the pot grow into a fortune. You go into right fields and make the right connections only thing left is the expectations build the confidence get rich.

a reply to: infolurker

If they can cover their basics, they have little desire to improve and they are not greedy for overtime like we were at that age.

But we've since learned (hopefully) that we were just as stupid as them. That overtime got taxed to the hilt and we bought coloured tvs as opposed to B & W, or extended that 3 bedroom house to 4. Admit it we were just as fooled as them.

How did we improve? Did we collapse this fiat Ponzi scheme that prints away debt and exports inflation. If you're from the USA you had it extra good. You had the military industrial complex that creates an economy and jobs and exports out of bloodshed!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

You and I think a great deal alike.
I had lots of odd jobs to fill in when engraving wasn't paying the bills.
I would do extra work, volunteer to clean the bathroom, take shifts nobody else wanted.
You know what I got for it?
The satisfaction of knowing I did my job well.
But I never got a raise, even after being promised one by 2 different employers.
I can live at ease with my conscience and that has no price tag on it.
I did my best and I can live with that.

a reply to: JohnthePhilistine

The start of the destruction of the family, what we called "woman's lib", was the root cause of the two parents working to provide as well as one had previously problem

So true, whilst the extra income may have paid for the occasional extra TV they failed to see the true effects of inflation and interest rates eating away at wealth; and the so called "need" for 2 people to work where 1 was sufficient before.

Again, I am hearing the grumblings of the "bootstrapping" crowd in this post. Other than blind luck, in a niche business venture, this strategy doesn't work anymore.

Keeping up with the basics in terms of education and on-the-job work skills won’t be enough, for jobs requiring future-tech, contemporary labor market, skill-sets. The poor and even the middle class (not the upper middle class) will simply NOT be able to keep up with the skill demands for future employment, which will include REQUIRED CERTIFICATIONS, STATE LICENSING, etc. The lower class laborers will still needs to earn wages, pay mandatory education/licensing fees out of pocket AND keep a roof over their heads ALL at the same time. In the VERY NEAR future, these very high costs skills that will be needed to stay “relevant” in ALL labor markets, will only be affordable to the rich, or possibly, to a VERY few, forward thinking, middle class families, willing to sacrifice everything they have financially, while pooling resources, to keep their offspring competitive, in the larger job market.

I will begin with the usual assertion I hear in regards to the impact of these, soon to be real, “future-tech jobs", which contrary to beliefs of some, includes the trades and accompanying "proprietary tech" that will not be repairable, only "replaceable by a certified/licensed tech".

“Someone has to get paid to fix the robots!”

I often hear this above noted rebuttal to mass automation and current labor cutting measure in the modern workplace, BUT it misses a subtle point that ONLY the children of the wealthy will have the opportunity to become TRUE experts in such fields. Let me clarify, through the prior 20th century, a poor kid who studied hard could become a lawyer, accountant, even a doctor sometimes, with the right combination of hard work, savings, scholarships, family support, etc. or the lower classes simply went directly into the trades, learning on the job, WITH PAY. HOWEVER, in current engineering and technician curriculum’s today, times have changed, to favor kids whom have had access to expensive software and hardware to “experiment” with and free-time to “practice” on before entering college or into their chosen training program. So, when these kids finally get to college or into their apprenticeships, those whom have had lots of "free time" to “play” with robotics and programming, outside of class, WILL CERTAINLY outpace their less privileged peer who had to flip burgers, part-time, to pay rent and school expenses.

Before 1990, 40% of teenagers had part-time jobs while in school. This is a relevant statistic because today only 20% of teenagers in school have part-time jobs. Teens at one time made up a sizable portion of the workforce and such changes in employment practices have shifted away from this, meaning, poor kids do not have any opportunity to build jobs skills of any kind, before, during and after college.

Although not my primary point, I do think there is plenty of evidence that lower class teens today, not only, do not have the opportunity to get part-time jobs, but in addition the wealthy kids are beginning to develop advanced skill-sets, that COULD be MORE helpful in their future adult careers, than say, “working at a taco stand after school”. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are very good, EARLY, examples of people who made use of their free time and access to money, without the need to labor for part-time pay. During that free time they develop specialized skills that could not have been learned at a MINDLESS part-time job or even in formal schooling. In the end, they leveraged free time learning and access to tech, due to having wealthy parents, into long term careers.

Here is a modern example of a company with a big contract to fill and absolutely "no will" to increase wages to attract experienced personnel, nor the desire to train inexperienced ones on the job, while paid. Instead they put out a story on the web bellyaching

bridgemi.com...

In the link below this paragraph, I have posted an example of what I believe to be a young person, from a well off family, who majored in robotics at USC. She doesn’t appear to have had any unrelated part-time job, in relation to her major, while in college. She also seem to have had access to technology, to experiment and PLAY with, in her spare time. She earned her masters & bachelors back-to-back AND at the end of college, got a job offer at a University sponsored dinner party for robotics majors. NOBODY I went to college with, EVER, got a job offer at a university sponsored dinner party. In contrast, I’m sure many Ivy league and top 10 school graduates do get job offers at university sponsored dinner parties. My point being, these future “robot repair jobs” are going to require smart kids, with desire to advance, whom also went to good schools, had lots of spare time and money to play with the tech outside of school AND get their jobs offered at dinner parties, some of which will be non-paying internships at first. These job offers will not be gained through sending out blind jobs applications through Linkedin or company job boards, as has been done up until now. Basically what this girl is doing for Disney will, in the near future, be more like what a plumber or electrician does today, EXCEPT you won’t get trained on the job, in a low-pay apprenticeship, when at “entry level”. In fact to even be considered for these “future-tech jobs” in the first place you’ll need to have good academic pedigree, lots of unpaid hobby experience and 1+ years of unpaid internships. Can kids outside of the upper middle class do the same thing as this young woman? I think not!

Here is her story, readers can decide for themselves, my opinion is that this is what careers in the trades are going to look like in 15+ years:

onedublin.org...

Those whom are going to be rendered jobless by automation/robotics/tech are going to be the least likely to be able to pick up these pieces, in the coming era of traditional jobs destruction. Its going to IMPOSSIBLE for the poor to go back to school and get a masters degree in robotics, in full-time only engineering programs. Contrary to belief these programs strongly discourage their admitted students from taking part-time jobs, while favoring students who have both the money and free time, whom have NEVER work at an unrelated job to their majors and also buy expensive robotics hardware/software to experiment with outside of class.

Mark my words the future labor market in the pursuit of “maintaining robots or other tech” is going to be the sole domain of rich kids, with advanced degrees from good schools because NO ONE is going to train anyone else perceived as lesser, in that kind of job, WITH PAY.

To continue my above point, I believe “rich kid” job mobility is going to be a bigger problem for regular folks, beyond what the previous "rich kid" pedigree typically bought in the 20th century. Their unfettered access to endless money and time, to “explore” academics and hands-on work, with no consequences, is going to END job mobility of any kind for the lower and middle classes; even for those whom have met the typical required higher education and work experience standards. Its a superstar only job market now, with no room for middle of road folks.

I think it more that they are not finding the jobs they think they deserve. They want $15 an hour for standing at a counter and think actual manual labor is not good enough. They could find work if they looked. Stores are always looking for someone. Go to construction companies. They need lower wage workers to clean job sites. Oil fields have trailer homes set up for offices and need people to clean them at about $150 per trailer. Takes a couple of hours and you can do 4 a day for a very tidy profit. There are jobs out there. You just have to be willing to get your hands dirty.