Ted Cruz says there is no ‘war on women’ because we don’t have a condom shortage

a reply to: olaru12

Was there something incorrect about Sen. Cruz' statement? The attack from the left was regarding limiting contraception for women - Cruz pointed out there is no shortage of condoms available.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

So much for asking nicely... It's always pulling teeth to get someone to back their claims up... Burden of Proof

Really, Krazyshot? That's a cheap shot and you know it.

Is it? I kindly asked for you to provide proof of this link and not only did you say no, you gave me a pretty rude response as well. I think my response was well deserved considering how you were talking to me.

Of course I also never consider demanding evidence from someone making a claim to be a cheap shot even if you do get angry that I made you fulfill your half of the conversation.

You're better than such cheap shots. If you want to challenge/discuss/argue the conclusions of the many studies and/or experts who claim a link, you know I would have gladly done so. But suggesting no such link has ever been made and demanding links that you could have easily found yourself is just silly.

Asking you to source your claims isn't the same as denying that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer. Please don't strawman my argument because I called you to task for making a claim without evidence. I've never heard about that link before, you brought it up though, so you needed to post the evidence for it. Don't get bitter about it because I ask you to source some links (again I asked politely at that).

In any case, let's discuss your second link. So I noticed that the link acknowledges that this isn't a wide spread belief through the medical community.

Although the medical community has been reluctant to acknowledge the link, induced abortion prior to a full term delivery, and prior to 32 weeks of gestation, increases the likelihood that a woman will develop breast cancer. This risk is especially increased for adolescents.

So there isn't a consensus of this opinion. I guess we have some promising results so far (as evidenced by your first link) where this link may be the case, but you can't honestly say that this is a proven and accepted link yet.

Here's cancer.org on the matter:

Is Abortion Linked to Breast Cancer?

Linking these topics creates a great deal of emotion and debate. But scientific research studies have not found a cause-and-effect relationship between abortion and breast cancer.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Perfectly. Do you understand that true fathers will die for their child?

a reply to: benwyatt

33-year-old Purvi Patel to 20 years in prison on charges of feticide - an act that causes the death of a fetus - and neglect of a dependent.
She was charged for not only causing the death of the unborn child, but also neglect of a newborn baby.... seems to me, you can't have it both ways....

www.nbcnews.com...

Bei Bei Shuai survived an attempt to commit suicide, jailed for causing the death of her fetus..

Amanda Kimbrough, was told her unborn child might suffer from down's syndrome, but chose to carry the child to term. The baby was born prematurely and died less than a half an hour later. Six months later, she was charged with chemical endangerment to a child with claims she was abusing drugs while pregnant, which she denies. She was found guilty and is awaiting appeal, which if she loses, she will be leaving the care of her three living children to serve a 10 year prison sentence.

"According to the National Advocates for Pregnant Women, prosecutors in South Carolina, one of the first states to introduce a fetal homicide law, have only charged one man under the legislation, and his case was subsequently dismissed. By contrast, as many as 300 South Carolina women have been arrested for their alleged actions against their unborn children during pregnancy."

www.wsws.org...





and then there is this:
www.alternet.org...

can you imagine getting arrested for miscarrying after falling down the stairs??

Rennie Gibbs
www.theguardian.com...

And well, my favorite....

"Women in states that don't have such laws on the books are still at risk of being charged with crimes against their fetuses, and rogue prosecutors can use their wide discretion to prosecute mothers with crimes beyond feticide or child abuse. In New York, for example, Jennifer Jorgensen is currently appealing her conviction of manslaughter in the death of the fetus she was carrying when she caused a car wreck that killed two other passengers in another vehicle. Jorgensen was acquitted of driving under the influence and manslaughter related to those deaths, but the manslaughter charge for the fetus inside her belly at the time of the crash (which died after an emergency C-section later) stuck.
www.vice.com..."

a higher court later overruled the decision. but still....
I think I have provided a long enough list to prove that are women are being arrested and jailed for miscarriages...

And yes your right, abortion laws take rights away from men. I think you want any irresponsible women to be able to change their mind and have an abortion after committing to starting a family with a man.

and...what is it when a women is jailed for falling down the stairs and miscarrying if not taking rights away from a women?? or jailing her for driving recklessly and having an accident? or making her lay in a hospital bed for hours or days developing an infection during a miscarriage because the religious hospital just won't do anything that might cause the death of the fetus???

now how would you like to talk about an irresponsible man who just can't keep his zipper in his pants even after his wife tells him that there no sex for six weeks after giving birth and makes her pregnant a few months after that birth?? I know of one! Or the husband, who after having six kids with his wife trades her and the kiddies in for a newer and less encumbered sexetary? because I know one of those also. or the husband who leaves his wife and newborn during the depression to sew for substanance and never and stops by for a visit even though he only lives a few blocks away? I happen to be related to that one! the newborn was my father!

it seems to me that the irresponsible behavior isn't just confined to women. the men seem to play their role in it also.

a reply to: dawnstar

thanks, really. hold on a minute while i digest more fascism.

eta: nevermind. your knee jerk reactions and omitted text from your sources tells me all i need to know about you.

But most would consider the imprisonment of (claimed) innocents a little "fascist"

Hey! can you show me the definition of "total war" too? That's what all this stuff is coming too!

a reply to: benwyatt
nothing I posted even directly relates to facism....

www.econlib.org...

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
not in the slightest! I think thats a responsible action

You do know that the morning after pill makes the uterus uninhabitable for the fertilized egg that is on it's way there, right? The fertilized egg (if there is one) is just absorbed by the woman's body instead of being allowed to implant. So, it's "responsible" to deny that "baby" a place to grow, but it's murder to remove it from the uterus?

a reply to: dawnstar

in at least one case you posted had these tidpits

She admitted that she'd put the fetus in a dumpster, emphasizing that she'd thought it to be dead.

Patel stressed that she believed she'd been only two months pregnant at the time of her miscarriage, but expert witnesses at her trial estimated her gestation to be past Indiana's 20-week window for legal abortion.

Thats almost 8 months when she decided to induce her own abortion....


From your own article


Interesting you leave that out

The miscarriage isnt against the law but dumping a fetus in a dumpster is, and so is inducing an abortion that late, at that point its not a freaking little cell, its a baby that can survive outside the womb! its a month from being born....

Nice selective information there....

a reply to: dawnstar

unjust acts by the state = fascism

if these women are innocent, and charged with a crime, like you say, i call it fascism.

do you even care if i read these or not?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
not in the slightest! I think thats a responsible action

You do know that the morning after pill makes the uterus uninhabitable for the fertilized egg that is on it's way there, right? The fertilized egg (if there is one) is just absorbed by the woman's body instead of being allowed to implant. So, it's "responsible" to deny that "baby" a place to grow, but it's murder to remove it from the uterus?

Im aware of how that works, Should i be offended by this? my stance on late term abortion has nothing to do with the morning after pill

you keep trying to put me in a box, sorry its not going to work, im not a rubber stamp that will fit snugly into your ideas of conservatives or perceived idealism

Im also pro choice

I dont have to agree with the act to support a womans right to choose

Much like im free speech but do not always agree with someones viewpoint...

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I find it some sort of amazing and hilarious that men keep discussing women's reproductive health care, like it's their business.

Yeah! Especially Fundamental Christians.

I'm really tired of men telling women what's right for them, what they think, that there treated equal, etc.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

so, tell me, is it possible to kill a baby while it's in the womb and also killing it by leaving it in the dumpster, because she was sentenced for both!! and what is the penalty for leaving a dead baby in a dumpster, compared to what she got? and well, just how many women would deliberately fall down the stairs to cause a miscarriage? or get into an auto accident with that intent? or decide that the best way to get rid of a pregnancy is to kill yourself???

sorry but.... no!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I find it some sort of amazing and hilarious that men keep discussing women's reproductive health care, like it's their business.

Yeah! Especially Fundamental Christians.

I'm really tired of men telling women what's right for them, what they think, that there treated equal, etc.

agreed! Therefore men should not be held financially responsible unless voluntarily , for children born

This being the case all matters of child support should immediately cease if the fathers choose to not support the child financially

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Should i be offended by this?

Oh, Lord! Offended again? That's entirely up to you. But I wouldn't be surprised if you were.

you keep trying to put me in a box, sorry its not going to work, im not a rubber stamp that will fit snugly into your ideas of conservatives or perceived idealism

Not at all. I'm ASKING to get your position. Did you see the question marks??? I forget how sensitive you are! OK. I'll try to be more politically correct. Just for you.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

so, tell me, is it possible to kill a baby while it's in the womb and also killing it by leaving it in the dumpster, because she was sentenced for both!! and what is the penalty for leaving a dead baby in a dumpster, compared to what she got? and well, just how many women would deliberately fall down the stairs to cause a miscarriage? or get into an auto accident with that intent? or decide that the best way to get rid of a pregnancy is to kill yourself???

sorry but.... no!

She took medicine to induce abortion, when she was 8 months along.....it says so in your article

It appears you do not want to address that

a reply to: Krazysh0t

[quote[I kindly asked for you to provide proof of this link and not only did you say no, you gave me a pretty rude response as well. I think my response was well deserved considering how you were talking to me.

Kindly? Perspective is... um... everything, isn't it?

Unfortunately, you did not begin this dialogue with an honest question, i.e., "Gee, I've never heard of that link, and I can't find anything, could you provide some links?" Instead you thought it necessary and appropriate to school me on the oh-so-obvious "Newsflash: Every major product you buy is a money maker for someone," and your oh-so-ridiculous "Death and misery of others? Who exactly is miserable here and who is dying?"

I've never heard about that link before, you brought it up though, so you needed to post the evidence for it. Don't get bitter about it because I ask you to source some links (again I asked politely at that).

Actually, I don't need to do anything... and you don't need me to. You certainly aren't going to accept anything I say as gospel truth just because I said it, and nor should you, and nor did you. Since you did your own research anyway, what did you need links from me for? Oh, that's right... you didn't just want "links," you wanted a definitive link... as in proof positive. And I said I couldn't provide that, as you well know.

So there isn't a consensus of this opinion. I guess we have some promising results so far (as evidenced by your first link) where this link may be the case, but you can't honestly say that this is a proven and accepted link yet.

Which is why I said I could not provide a definitive link.

Here's cancer.org on the matter

Yes, indeed, the American Cancer Society, which receives 2 out of 4 stars from Charity Navigator, pays its CEO close to $1,000,000 per year, and makes beaucoup bucks off of cancer... not impressed.

a reply to: olaru12

I am pretty sure Democrats are going to win anyway.

It doesn't matter who wins when both sides are losers.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I, too, find late-term abortion repugnant.
Just to make that clear.

I don't think that's the main issue being argued here (at a national level), though.
There are too many people foaming at the mouth about first-trimester abortions, and birth control use. Very, very few people would endorse third-trimester or so-called 'partial-birth' abortion. I agree that is barbaric.

But, if a zygote is terminated using birth control (which, you might know - "the pill" (regular pre-sex birth control, that is) is also formulated to prevent implantation of the fertilized egg - the pill 'tweaks' the hormones so that the uterus behaves as it would if it were already pregnant and thus would reject another implantation), or a pea-sized embryo is terminated - that is not "murder."

And PP does not "sell" baby parts. You do know that, right? You know that those videos were contrived, edited nonsense, right?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Oh, Lord! Offended again? That's entirely up to you. But I wouldn't be surprised if you were.

more projection, my reply was clearly making the point that I wasnt, also irrelevant.....

Not at all. I'm ASKING to get your position. Did you see the question marks??? I forget how sensitive you are! OK. I'll try to be more politically correct. Just for you.

again nothing sensitive about it, what I see is you goading to try to get an emotional response , sorry to break it to you, its not going to happen, im multitasking at work between replies and appointments, so i appologize that I cannot give you the effort it would take to do so

I think my reply summarized my thoughts exactly, which I noticed you didnt respond to

No intention there eh?

Much love Benev

I guess I knew this thread would eventually evolve into the abortion debate.....so be it!

My initial intent however was to show how Cruz is a numbnutz and wouldn't hesitate to bring to the US his fathers theocracy and give all personal decision making to the state and church. Perhaps this is what the Christian Conservatives want anyway. Smaller government my ass!!