Russia says NATO accepts reponsibility for downing of Russian Su-24 jet

ok.

What does Russia have to gain from blaming NATO publicly?

Is it just propaganda for the Russian people or is it for external effect?

originally posted by: benwyatt
ok.

What does Russia have to gain from blaming NATO publicly?

Is it just propaganda for the Russian people or is it for external effect?

it forces NATO to accept Turkey's actions or not.

The history of Turkey is barely NATO and more it's own interests.

So I don't expect much from this.

originally posted by: benwyatt
ok.

What does Russia have to gain from blaming NATO publicly?

Is it just propaganda for the Russian people or is it for external effect?

NATO is a powerful alliance of "First World" nations, and therefore a worthy opponent for Russia. Turkey is a single country acting alone in defiance of Russia. They are supposed to be frightenedband in awe of her. The Russian people and the world cannot be allowed to believe that Russia rates behind Turkey in the Military League.

originally posted by: Reverbs

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Reverbs

Frankly, I tire of your avoidance of the simplicity of The fact of Turk airspace being theirs and their call on what to do and when to do it.

Lots of contradictions. Guard frequencies by Turk F-16s which Russia doesn't monitor..

Yet the pilots bail before the missiles are fired?...

We probably will never know who did what to whom. lies piled on lies getting deeper by the minute. S400s spotted in Syria a week before the shoot down?



A Pox on all of em...

You are making so many assumptions. You have proof Russia doesn't monitor?
Or that pilots bail before missiles are fired? ?

I'll tell you if they knew radar lock in time to bail they would be alive.

S-400s have nothing to do with this as Turkey said they shot the plane.

They were alive. They both bailed out... apparently one shot by ground forces...But alive and out before the missile strike...or so they say.

This is not the first time a plane has been shot down in war zone. Maybe people forget the Turks has on shot down as well which of course lead to Turkeys more aggressive defense of its airspace. Russia shot down 3 passenger liners in Georgia because they were warned to stay away. It happens. Russia knew that by keeping up skirting Russian airspace in the middle of war something was likely to happen. It was just playing the odds it would not. It did and frankly the Russian can not do much about and do not seem to want to either. Some harmless sanctions but, nothing that threatens the vital trade it has with Turkey nor it's join pipe line projects.

Russia as always is going to talk a good public game. However. the reality is very different. Russia needs Turkey and it is a simple as that. Russia will try and grab some PR out of it but, all that flying up on peoples borders over the last year has ruined any sympathy it would have gotten.

originally posted by: Reverbs

originally posted by: benwyatt
ok.

What does Russia have to gain from blaming NATO publicly?

Is it just propaganda for the Russian people or is it for external effect?

it forces NATO to accept Turkey's actions or not.

The history of Turkey is barely NATO and more it's own interests.

So I don't expect much from this.

So back to the OP. NATO did neither with this statement.

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: nwtrucker

no it's you.

Israel is even ok with it.

Turkey has no support.

LOL. What is "Israel" OK with?

a reply to: nwtrucker

Russia has entered Israeli airspace multiple times. Prior to their deployment Russia and Israel worked out procedures for when that happens so they don't have an incident like what happened with Turkey.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: nwtrucker

Russia has entered Israeli airspace multiple times. Prior to their deployment Russia and Israel worked out procedures for when that happens so they don't have an incident like what happened with Turkey.

One would assume Russia wasn't killing Israeli's in, say, Palestine when that agreement was made.

One can assume a similar agreement between Turkey and Russia doesn't exist?

Funny how this is being turned into me supporting Turkey. I don't. The only point I make is their airspace, their call.

Anyone who tries to imply otherwise, not saying you, is spinning. Simple. If the U.S. did decide to shoot down a Russian plane that entered U.S. airspace and everyone else said the U.S. stood alone and was against it would receive a middle-fingered salute from yours truly.

I grant the same right to Turkey. But that's all. IF they have an agenda behind it...and that's a safe bet, then a screw em.

a reply to: MrSpad

Well, i have visited this site for ~6 years, and you have been right in the past. So, how does one ratchet up the PR stunts against/within a clustered 3-way "alliance" and not have said alliance fall apart, or even devolve into military conflict?

Yugoslavia comes to mind and the rest of the balkans.

a reply to: [post=20095107]

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Reverbs

This is REALLY simple...Stay out of Turkish airspace.

Measuring the act against any other isn't germane and muddies a simple message.

Stay out of my airspace. Stop the comparisons. Their nation, their airspace, their choice.

LOL, you sound like Barack Obama.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Reverbs

This is REALLY simple...Stay out of Turkish airspace.

Measuring the act against any other isn't germane and muddies a simple message.

Stay out of my airspace. Stop the comparisons. Their nation, their airspace, their choice.

LOL, you sound like Barack Obama.

I see no reason to insult me.....

Besides....when has Obama ever been that definitive.

a reply to: nwtrucker

It wasn't so much definitive as it was a gross oversimplification.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: nwtrucker

It wasn't so much definitive as it was a gross oversimplification.

Bull! The fundamental, the basic truth is it IS their airspace. Period.

Precedent by others is insufficient to trump their right to control their own airspace. The 'complexity' lies with others.....and with you.

As an afterthought, as much as I dislike Turkey, they're the first ones to actually DARE to slap Russia/Putin in the face. I admit to a malicious pleasure from the act....

a reply to: nwtrucker

As an afterthought, as much as I dislike Turkey, they're the first ones to actually DARE to slap Russia/Putin in the face. I admit to a malicious pleasure from the act....

You realise someone has lost a life here right? You are talking about a person who had to die because YOU wanted to slap someone in face to prove a point.. knowing you are somehow getting a melicious pleasure out of this it's just I don't know I have no words


Question
if it was you who was ordered to shoot these two pilots down tell me would you be able to sleep at night

my true colours none of this is ok I don't care who you are if you are even my own blood if you did this I wouldn't judge your reasons I wouldn't justify your actions i would simply just never trust you again

a reply to: Layaly

You realise someone has lost a life here right?

And his blood is on the hands of the man who ordered him to fight.

a reply to: Sparkymedic

I don't think Putin is stupid enough to let it happen again though.

But he did after being warned the first time about the consequences of their actions crossing the Turkish border.

A Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace near the Syrian border on Saturday, prompting Turkey to scramble two F-16 jets to intercept it and summon Russia's ambassador in protest.

"The Turkish armed forces are clearly instructed. Even it is a flying bird it will be intercepted," Davutoglu said.
He warned Turkey's enemies and allies not to infringe its air space but he dismissed the notion of tensions with Russia.

www.aljazeera.com...

I believe Putin wanted to see how far he could go with Turkey and it cost him a plane and pilot because he thinks he can do what he wants because he is Russia and nobody tells them what to do.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Russia has entered Israeli airspace multiple times. Prior to their deployment Russia and Israel worked out procedures for when that happens so they don't have an incident like what happened with Turkey.

But is Russia willing to do that with a NATO country...I don't see them taking this step which would stop another incident like this from happening again.

a reply to: benwyatt

Russia says NATO accepts reponsibility for downing of Russian Su-24 jet

I wouldn't expect anything less coming from the Kremlin mouthpiece.

And NATO never took and doesn't take responsibility for one of it's member countries that acted on it's own.

Did they ever take responsibility for the actions that the US has done on their own...No they didn't, so why do it now?