Now we are going to need passports to fly in the US? This can't be constitutional.

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Unconstitutional how?


If you're driving you should be alright, but flying is different.

Question you don't have to answer;
How does this affect you in the long run?
Or is it just a first world problem?

Passports take time to get and cost a bit of money. Also, I don't see why you should need one to move between states.

When Texas secedes as they keep threatening to do; Texans will nee a passport to travel in the US because they will be another country....The Republic of Texas.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
wait! wait! are these some of the same jackwagons that claim that requiring ID to vote is discriminatory?

I'd share an opinion that direction as it seems big government supporters are fine if federals require certain ID to fly but at same time decry when a state makes it a requirement to vote, something that's well within a states prerogative per the constitution.

It boggles me how folks don't realize that what is politically expedient for them today can turn on a dime and go against them due to enabling the federal government in assuming powers it was never intended to have.

Instead of limits imposed originally we now have a fickle system that can change in one or two election cycles depending upon how the public feels or is manipulated into feeling.

Papers, please. If you don't have them, we can detain you, and in case you don't know it, Habeas Corpus is no longer in effect thanks to indefinite detention and the NDAA amendment.

Yes, indeed, the land of the free and home of the brave.

Complain the country is not protected, but complain if anything is done to ensure protection.

Personally, I live in the real world --- not a fantasy ideology.

a reply to: Annee

Do you mean to say that producing a passport ensures protection? If that's your point, how so?

Transportation is considered a privilege and can be modified codified and restricted. Movement cannot. You are free to walk. That is why we need a drivers license and registration to operate a vehicle. So if they want, they can make you get a national passport to travel by air over the US.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: lcbjr1979

But flying is a privilege isn't it?

Not a constitutional right...

Or am I missing the amendment?

Ya, what about cars, buses, and boats?

a reply to: Fromabove

I suppose they could also order you to kill your neighbor, given certain conditions. Would you happily obey that order too?

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Fromabove

I suppose they could also order you to kill your neighbor, given certain conditions. Would you happily obey that order too?

No, I don't like that one.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: lcbjr1979

But flying is a privilege isn't it?

Not a constitutional right...

Or am I missing the amendment?

You hit the nail on the head, there, not to mention what eluryh22 said about those four states not updating to current federal standards of identification. But I agree with you, Charlie, that if there are other means of travel available (car, train, etc.) that don't necessitate a passport, there's nothing wrong with this law.

I put the onus on the states to update their ID cards so that they don't have to force their residents to shell out the cash and time to get a passport.

originally posted by: Fromabove

Transportation is considered a privilege and can be modified codified and restricted. Movement cannot. You are free to walk. That is why we need a drivers license and registration to operate a vehicle. So if they want, they can make you get a national passport to travel by air over the US.

I'm pretty sure your argument, or rationalization, has no legal grounds. Here are a few court cases that find that driving is a right, not a privilege. Yes, as you mention, those decisions are founded upon the notion of freedom of movement.

Kent v. Dulles, 357US116
Weirich v. State 148Wis98

Also Ligaro v. Chicago, but I don't have the case number.

Having to provide to authorities papers upon demand is very reminiscent of Nazi Germany policy.

This only applies to states which decided not to conform their state ID's and driver's licenses to a single national design. For everyone else, we can fly as we please without passport. You will also have issues accessing any Federal facilities where ID is required to be presented.

Blame your state legislators for being in the minority who chose to make your life harder while all the other states chose not to make their citizens lives harder.

originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
This only applies to states which decided not to conform their state ID's and driver's licenses to a single national design. For everyone else, we can fly as we please without passport. You will also have issues accessing any Federal facilities where ID is required to be presented.

Blame your state legislators for being in the minority who chose to make your life harder while all the other states chose not to make their citizens lives harder.

I'm pretty sure the RealID Act became law. That means there are no states who can opt out. All ID papers must meet federal standards.

Requiring a passport to buy an airline ticket is a logical extension of that perverse reasoning.

a reply to: Salander

A few states simply refused to change their State ID's to conform with the Federal requirements under RealID. Those are the states where you would need a passport to fly rather than a drivers license.

No one sees this as a federal violation of Article IV, the full faith & credit clause between the states ? Those 4 states, and their records should be afforded full faith as sufficient, for travel within the United States.

originally posted by: olaru12
I went and got my passport today! It cost me $160 bucks. I think that's the main reason...revenue generation.

This is the beginning of the loss of freedom we have always enjoyed in this country, freedom of movement is one of the first to go when a country becomes a prison.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: olaru12
I went and got my passport today! It cost me $160 bucks. I think that's the main reason...revenue generation.

This is the beginning of the loss of freedom we have always enjoyed in this country, freedom of movement is one of the first to go when a country becomes a prison.

Freedom from being blown up in an airplane would count as well.
You can move, but you need to positively identify yourself with something that is harder to fake.
It is a different world

originally posted by: regor77
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I know I will get no sympathy here (made my own bed and all), but I have a twenty year old felony that prevents me from obtaining a passport. I also live in Mn. So now I wont be able to fly either? Not that I would want to these days. Seems I just keep losing privileges no matter how clean I keep my nose these days. I would have to say that that is how it affects me. But hey, as long as it's no problem for you, why worry eh?

wow, I didn't know that a felony on your record prevented getting a passport. So, all those convicted of felonies for having a joint or two cannot get a passport?????? That's heavy. Then how come this:

federal or state law enforcement agency may request the denial of a passport on several regulatory grounds under 22 CFR 51.70 and 51.72. The principal law enforcement reasons for passport denial are a federal warrant of arrest, a federal or state criminal court order, a condition of parole or probation forbidding departure from the United States (or the jurisdiction of the court), or a request for extradition. The HHS child support database and the Marshals Service WIN database are checked automatically for entitlement to a passport. Denial or revocation of a passport does not prevent the use of outstanding valid passports.
answers.yahoo.com...

So this isn't only about the IRS, this law covers a lot of ground. People who owe more than 50K CAN have their passports revoked by the IRS. We'll see if this is enforced by the IRS on the likes of Al Sharpton who owes millions.

If you have a felony conviction of a certain type, owe more than 50K to the IRS, owe more than $2,500 in child support - even if you are in the process of getting current, you can be denied travel by air.

What about trains, or say an Alaskan cruise?

I can't believe Obama would endorse this as he IS a constitutional lawyer. And this seems very un-constitutional. How did this ever get support?

ETA: You know OP, I thought there would be a lot more outrage over this new law. Apparently people have their passports already secured or just aren't interested in losing their freedom. Just wait till your brother has a new kid or nephew Todd graduates from college in Adak AK and you live in Seattle WA and you want to fly out for occasion. OOooooops. Shame on you. No passport, no fly. Now you're gonna miss the celebrations, all because you don't have a passport.

I'm sure many people won't realize this new law till the last minute so travel by any other route than flying would be too slow.

a reply to: lcbjr1979All this BS has to do with a Real-Id Act thing. Sometime in the last 8 to 10 years the federal government got a new law past the required states to change their drivers license. Then some of the states did not comply. According to some federal officials older drivers license will not be allowed as id for a individual because the did not meet the new standards. However, a current passport would. There are still a few states that have not adopted the Real ID Act drivers license. After January 1st. those drivers may have difficulty using their license out of state.

a reply to: Ceeker63

After January 1st. those drivers may have difficulty using their license out of state.

And that would be a blatant violation of article 4. Adding to this, this sets a precedence for states to ignore other legal acts, records, licensed privileges. How would the citizenry like it, when they enter another state and fine their marriage license is no acknowledged ? Or their power of attorney to be denied by a neighboring states, when an incident occurs where they need it being in effect ?

If you move, your last will and testament being ignored by your new occupancy ?



Aside from the pure & obvious restriction of free travel, which ANY AND ALL citizens should have in a free society, there are ramifications to this.