Your Diet Will Kill You

originally posted by: ConMi27

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: ConMi27
So here's the deal: We all know now that eating meat in general causes cancer.

So my question is: Why are YOU still eating it.

Your answer is money!

S&F

.... Or else what's the point to life?

Life is a sexually transmitted disease that is 100% fatal. Balance is key in all things.

The real answer to life is to be a better person, to work on what you wanted to work on when you came here to Earth. To "level up" spiritually. And move on to the next life, what ever it may be. This life is too short to worry about eating flesh or not eating flesh. If you prefer to eat animal flesh, go for it, if you prefer to eat plant flesh, more power to you.

My question is why do you care what I put into my body if it doesn't affect you personally? There are times when I crave animal meat, there are times when I crave plant meat. Listen to your body and it will tell you what you need to be healthy.

Having an obsession over what other people do with their lives is not healthy, will cause undue stress, releasing stress hormones that will cause you to get sick and die. So, yes, there are germs out there that might make you ill, but your immune system should take care of that as long as it is healthy. If you worry, stress, and not be happy, then your immune system will be compromised; you will be more susceptible to dis-ease. Balance is Key In ALL things.
It sounds like your life is out of balance.

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

I believe in "Everyhing with moderation"

To little or to much of anything will kill you, an addiction is an addiction no matter what your addicted to, an we all seem to be addicted to something

How does an addiction start? When your are depressed or filled with fear, when you dont believe in yourself anymore, and need something to replace that feeling with

Why do we do it? I would say depression...

I agree 100%. The one thing I always talk about with my kids is moderation, I tell them that you can do anything in moderation, but most drugs do not let you just use moderately. I do think addiction is also greatly associated with genetics, and I have seen many times where a person is addicted to whatever and they know that their only course is pure abstinence, or they can never stop. My family run our lives with moderation as the key, what we eat, how much we eat, what we drink etc. I'm 55 and my blood pressure is 115/65, sugar 90, and I take nothing but vitamins and something to help my joins with 40 years of sports. My friends about the same age think that is weird, many take up to 7 types of drugs, are fighting heart disease, border line diabetics, got to pee ever hole on a golf course, over weight, joint replacements (and didn't play sports) and so on. Now I'm now like the OP I do eat red meat, but I buy at a time 1/2 a pasture feed cow from friends, I eat a lot of veggies and fruits, but smoke cigars and drink scotch, also like the north west beers. Being in the North West we do eat a good amount of fish, and of course chicken/pork all the time too. The key is I do not eat pounds of red meat 3 times a day. I'm sad though since I have not smoke a cigar or had scotch in 2 1/2 months, too dam cold outside, but just wait until summer...woot!

a reply to: ConMi27

It's very true that our diets can heal or hurt us. We need to do our own research though and not just parrot what we are told. Food has amazing power over us as it is our fuel. Fuel for our minds as well as our bodies.

Animal based foods are the richest source of the b vitamins, in particular b12. So how does one survive with a massive b12 deficiency without consuming red meat products? The human brain is also in vital need of b12. We can get minute amounts from other foods, but not enough to sustain our systems. Funny how dumbing us all down might happen to fit the agenda though.

One other scenario for you, how about a young child with food allergies to the most common plant based proteins? How does a young child survive and thrive without massive amounts of protein? They don't.

I think it's rather presumptuous of you to tell me my diet will kill me when a good portion of my life is devoted to just that. As others have said, everything in moderation. To be honest wih you, not eating animal products in my home would severely decimate, if not worse, myself and my young son. Even with nearly daily red meat consumption I still need a regular shot of b12, and he still looks anorexic.

Talk to a medical professional before taking such a drastic step as not eating meat anymore. At the very least do some serious food studies to ensure you are at least giving your body the bare minimum of what you do need to survive. We get our trace nutrients from many sources and if we don't provide our systems with those sources then supplementation is important.

a reply to: woodsmom

Omg. Your talking like you never left 2000. Man wake up this is 2015. do your research properly and don't talk outdated stuff.

Also please tell me I read it wrong about b12 shots. In what country do you live or better yet who the hell is your doctor. I hope the person that receives b12 shots and eat meat crap did not burn his liver. I hope he don't drink alcohol or bye bye liver.

You can see if his skin color turned yellow as well as yellow color in his eyes.

a reply to: ConMi27

Meh, I know vegetarians who eat produce treated with organophosphate pesticides...If I was a betting man, which I am, I'd bet on myself to live a longer, healthier life than them. I was a pescatarian (wild fish being the only animals I would consume) for 10 years, mostly in my 20's. Now, I eat a wide variety of foods, including a lot of different animals besides plants, dairy and fungi: cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, cornish hens, duck, elk, bison, deer, wild boar, fish, seafood - they're all really yummy and nutritious. I eat as natural/organic as I can. My home environment is kept as natural as I can keep it.

In short, I feel way less like I'm killing myself and my children than most vegetarians, and I'm fairly certain I'm right.

a reply to: Skada
And from what I hear , along the lines of the original post , stress is a major contributor to cancer and especially the spread of the disease afterwards. How do I know ? I found out from my specialist and my Oncologist that I have to "visit" once every 3 months

Peace...

a reply to: saadad

I have to take the b12 shots, bi weekly at minimum. I don't have a choice, my body doesn't absorb it right. I'm also very anemic. I need things to survive that I can't get from a vegetarian diet.

ETA- I live in Alaska and see a highly sought after naturopath who has saved half of my family now.



And no I'm not yellow by any means.im healthier than I have been my whole life.

originally posted by: ConMi27

Dairy and eggs and meat in conjunction, play very important roles in this.

My mom got bone cancer twice and she didn't eat hardly anything though she was a heavy smoker, still lived to 82, but the smoking got her in the end.

a reply to: ConMi27

Trying to link meat consumption to every disease under the sun is not helping your cause at all.

About 1/3 of Indians are vegetarians. According to the WHO data (2013, published 2015), the overall (male+female) life expectancy of Indians is 66 years. The country with the most meat consumption appears to be Denmark with 28x the meat consumption of India. Denmark has an overall life expectancy of 80 years.

The above comparison is pretty poor as the standards of living and the quality of healthcare is drastically different. So what about if we just look at individuals among an otherwise homogeneous group? The most comprehensive study that I'm aware of and one that is often touted by groups like PETA is the Adventist Health Study which tracked about 34,000 participants over a period of two decades. The results?

After adjusting for age and sex, Seventh-day Adventist vegetarians had a relative risk for total mortality of 0.80 (95% CI: 0.74, 0.87) compared with those who ate any meat products. Using a multivariate, multiple-decrement-lifetable approach (19), we showed that vegetarian Seventh-day Adventist women live 2.52 y longer than their nonvegetarian (meat ≥1 time/wk) counterparts (P < 0.001), and a similar comparison in men showed a 3.21-y difference in longevity (P < 0.001).

Notice that the definition of "vegetarian" is also pretty loose (meat ≥1 time/wk). Following up studies form the Seventh-day Adventists purport more drastic results but only by manipulating the definition even further. Don't take my word for it.

As far as the specious claims about prion disease — the article deliberately conflates prion diseases to construct a wholly fallacious argument. vCJD is a prion disease that is strongly linked to eating BSE ("Mad Cow" Disease) contaminated meat. This is true. There is also research suggesting that Alzheimer's and Parkinson's may actually be prion/prion-like diseases — abnormalities in TDP-43 leading to the formation of amyloid plaques and Lewy bodies respectively — but there's absolutely no data to suggest that in either case these abnormal proteins originate from any food let alone meat.

In fact, the prions involved in known prion diseases like CJD are formed from a protein that we all have in our cell membranes, PrP. Prion diseases are classified into three categories by origin: acquired, familial, or sporadic (or infectious, genetic and sporadic). The spontaneous formation of prions has been observed (in one instance, triggered by contact with metal filaments). PRNP mutations have been found that correspond to greater likelihood of prion formation (look into Fatal Familial Insomnia for an example) and in turn, mutations have also been shown to confer a resistance to prion disease (see my thread here).

As for E. coli, this is perhaps the least appropriate food borne pathogen you could have picked as common vectors include fruits and vegetables having nothing to do with the consumption of meat. If a deer defecates on an apple and the apple isn't thoroughly washed and is used to create unpasteurized juice/cider, that's a possible source. If an employee at Chipotle doesn't was his hands after using the restroom and chops up a bunch of lettuce, that's another possible source for infection.

About all anyone can honestly say is this:

Don't smoke, drink less, eat less, exercise more and include more nuts, fruits and vegetables in your diet and you'll probably live a little longer.

If you're really concerned about the treatment of livestock, I'd stick to educating people about the unethical and disturbing practices of the industry and avoid baseless fear mongering.

a reply to: ConMi27

Even if that's true, OP, the fact is, I'm going to die one day anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I may as well enjoy it, and if that means eating what I want and dropping a few years at the end of my life when I'm virtually certain to be in poor health regardless, so be it.

We should all be eating about 8-12 ounces of meat a week and 22 grams of sugar a day...
Your average steak is 8 ounces and a can of soda has 24 grams of sugar.
Do you ever wonder why "sugar" doesn't have a daily value on the nutrition facts?
It's not because it doesn't warrant it...

It's because a soda like this is more than twice our daily value of sugar in one serving.

That's a conspiracy unto itself...

originally posted by: ConMi27

It's all in the video, I think an hour in but I can't be sure. Just watch it, or skip through it. I had never heard of it before either, but they have studies of which after diet change within 16 days the patients no longer needed outside insulin. Pretty amazing, really.

I watched the video and he only talks about type 2 which is what I expected from a doctor. I agree that a better diet and exercise can help reduce type 2 diabetes, and this is the first line of treatment in the UK, doctors always advice a change in lifestyle to see if it can be controlled with diet only, before any medication is prescribed. But, once again, Type 1 diabetes has no cure.

I agree that we do eat too much meat, we don't need meat every day but we are not meant to eat only plant based food: vegans have to take supplements to stay healthy, even Dr Greger recommend so. One example is vitamin B12 which is only found in animal products and deficiency can make you seriously ill and it is sometimes irreversible. This from Dr. Greger's website:

Sadly, since b12 is a product of bacteria, b12 is not found in plant sources..... View this video on b12 and another necessary supplement! ... Since it doesn't appear that we can overdose on B12 I would continue taking your supplemental B12 as the problems with deficiency can be severe and irreversible. I would follow Dr. Greger's recommendations for insuring adequate B12 intake either by taking 2000 mcg once a week, 100 mcg daily, or at least 2 servings daily(at least 6 hours apart) of B12 fortified foods each containing at least 20% "Daily Value" on label. It is also advisable to periodically check the safety of well water (the EPA recommends annual checks).
nutritionfacts.org...

Vitamin B12 is only found in animal products and it is essential for our health, this alone confirms we are omnivorous and we are not meant to eat only plants. If supplements didn't exist you would need to eat animal products, which means we did not evolve to be vegan.

originally posted by: Skada

originally posted by: ConMi27

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: ConMi27
So here's the deal: We all know now that eating meat in general causes cancer.

So my question is: Why are YOU still eating it.

Your answer is money!

S&F

.... Or else what's the point to life?

Life is a sexually transmitted disease that is 100% fatal. Balance is key in all things.

The real answer to life is to be a better person, to work on what you wanted to work on when you came here to Earth. To "level up" spiritually. And move on to the next life, what ever it may be. This life is too short to worry about eating flesh or not eating flesh. If you prefer to eat animal flesh, go for it, if you prefer to eat plant flesh, more power to you.

My question is why do you care what I put into my body if it doesn't affect you personally? There are times when I crave animal meat, there are times when I crave plant meat. Listen to your body and it will tell you what you need to be healthy.

Having an obsession over what other people do with their lives is not healthy, will cause undue stress, releasing stress hormones that will cause you to get sick and die. So, yes, there are germs out there that might make you ill, but your immune system should take care of that as long as it is healthy. If you worry, stress, and not be happy, then your immune system will be compromised; you will be more susceptible to dis-ease. Balance is Key In ALL things.
It sounds like your life is out of balance.

I was just wondering why. That's all. There's just so many evidence and most people on here tend to like to view evidence and debate it. Pretty simple thread really. I don't care what you put in your mouth, but asking why fulfills my own curiosity. Based on these debates I've decided why is simply because you don't care or you don't think it's important. That's the only conclusion I've come up with. Either option is fine by me.

a reply to: Agartha

I've read that there are some plants in China that contain b12 but that they are hard to come by and quite expensive. And if he was referring to Diabetes type 1 I apologize. I was quite sure it was about type 1 because everyone knows losing weight and eating healthier eradicates type two diabetes anyways. However, 16 days is an impressive feat.

12 Questions about b12 - Nutrition Studies

Two varieties of edible algae (Dried green (Enteromorpha sp.) and purple (Porphyra sp.) seaweed (nori)) have been found to have active B12, but other algae have inactive B12-analog compounds that have no apparent benefit in animal metabolism. Some varieties of mushrooms and some foods made with certain fermentation processes have very small amounts of active B12. Plants found in our food supply do not contain B12, though plants grown in experimental settings with B12-enriched soils or water (with hydroponic processes, for example) do actually take up B12.

So perhaps the question is, have we always needed b12 or have our bodies grown accustomed to it over years and years of evolution?

Does our B12 requirement mean we aren’t pure herbivores? At the risk of inciting ideological responses, here’s my answer: I believe it to be clear that humans did not evolve as strict vegans. From what we currently know, I believe our requirement for B12 supports this point of view. I believe that in the environment of scarcity we evolved in, we adapted to do quite well with a wide range of foods. That being said, we likely evolved from primarily plant-eaters millions of years ago and remain close genetic relatives to primarily plant-eating primates. Modern nutritional science has shown a dietary pattern dominated by unrefined plants, even exclusively containing plants, to be superior for prevention and reversal of chronic disease. Are we designed to be eating some insects, or some dirt, or some meat? Perhaps, but we don’t need to, and in our current environment of overabundance and profoundly sedentary lifestyles, I actually think this type of recommendation would do more harm than good. Is it possible we’ll learn more information that changes the B12 conversation as we learn more about the gut microbiome? I’m not sure, but I sure hope so.

SO MAYBE, just maybe, the same instinct that leads some eating alot of meat and others to stick to veggies comes from instincts from 10,000 years ago. Perhaps we started off as herbivores, then due to basic climate change and survival, we adapted to omnivores. But if eating less meat, or no meat at all, reduces 'chronic illnesses' - then regardless, it is healthier for you to refrain from it.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I don't have a cause. I think most of you are taking this as me trying to CONVINCE you to not eat meat. I don't need to convince you. You live your life based on what is best for you. But I AM curious about people that smoke three packs of cigarettes a day and live in no fear of consequences, or like my grandmother whom just died of lung cancer that spread to her brain and bones from years and years of choosing to dip tobacco. Growing up I thought the whole point of survival was to live, learn and overcome. Once you learn something is bad, you stop doing it. Unless you have a natural tendency to want to do bad things. In which case, that's beside the point.

General thoughts, for generalizing issues. Social unrest. It's what it's about.

And you're right, I probably could have chosen a different angle. But I hold all of those issues high up on the same scale. One is neither better than the other. If you can't eat food and feel good about it afterwards, then don't eat it. It's as simple as that.

a reply to: theantediluvian

If you're really concerned about the treatment of livestock, I'd stick to educating people about the unethical and disturbing practices of the industry and avoid baseless fear mongering.

Every single person on this board should be concerned about the treatment of livestock. It's what you eat. You are what you eat. Fecal Contamination is one of the main reasons people get sick. Its in every part of live stock, and the USDA constantly changes the amount of fecal contamination that is allowed on your meat. They call it "blemishes". Look it up.

As far as baseless goes, List of Doctors whom Support plant-based diets

Without me spewing out a crap ton of resources because it's getting exhausting, those hundreds of doctors can't all be wrong. Go veg yourself.

a reply to: ConMi27

No need to apologize! Most people don't know about the big difference between type 1 and type 2 (big difference, look it up). And I believe the data regarding the weight loos and the incredible consequences to their health, we do eat too much sugar, fried food and rubbish.

Our ancestor Australopithecus was eating meat 2 million years ago, so I do believe we have evolved to need vitamin B12. It is essential to our bodies and all genuine vegan doctors (like Dr. Greger) always recommend supplements. Let me ask you something: if you had to live off the land alone, no technology whatsoever, how would you get your vitamin B12? You would have to eat some sort of animal product, that's the only natural way.

Like others have said we need to balance our diets, not go to one extreme or the other. In my household we eat vegan / vegetarian at least 3 times a week because we don't need animal products every day and because I don't want the unnecessary sacrifice of animals for my diet (the reason why I was a vegetarian for many years in my 20s).

Haven't you been watching the news lately?

They're trying to push the insects are a good source of protein crap and I do believe it really is coming to the market soon.

Why? because there's too many mouths to feed.

Again the PTB are using MSM to push their agenda and people are too blind to see. They are starting with the 'meat is bad for you' brigade.

In 50 years time, meat will be a luxury eaten once a year by the peasants, while the elite will continue to eat it.

Meanwhile us proles will be crunching on crickets and munching on millworms.

a reply to: ConMi27

it really annoys me any time anyone goes around saying "this is what YOU should do." there are lots of reasons why i eat meat. first of all, i'm gluten intolerant. i react to even tiny amounts of wheat, like wheat derivatives in spices and cross contamination from things like fryers (so i can't eat french fries if the fryer was used for something breaded). go for a month without eating anything that has wheat and then we can talk about what else to cut from my diet. it's in nearly everything. AND it's extremely difficult to eat at restaurants or friends' houses without getting "glutened" accidentally.

but even if that weren't true, i would still eat meat because we evolved to eat meat and plants. the real killer is carbs. we've been eating meat for 100,000 years or more, but we've only been eating grain for 10,000 years. the link between meat and cancer didn't show up until after the "pesticide revolution" which makes sense, because a lot of toxins bioaccumulate up the food chain. but meat isn't the only thing that bioaccumulates poisons. check out what happens to lettuce when exposed to radioactive particles. now evidence suggests nitrogen fertilizers have rendered the ogallala aquifer radioactive. do you know how much food comes from there? how do you avoid that at the grocery store? between pesticides, herbicides, gmos, sugar, fat, salt, preservatives, stabilizers, fake colors, and fake flavors, it's no mystery why our health is shot. if you think there's only one problem you're totally naive. the factory farm system is the cause of most of the problems, and the processing of food causes the rest. but how do you feed 7 billion people without cutting corners? it can't be done. i try to eat as much wild food as i can, and i try to grow a garden. i opt for wild game and fish whenever possible, but even wild foods have toxins from environmental degradation. so don't lord your "holier than thou" diet over me just cuz you read a few articles somewhere. and don't give me that "animals deserve to live" line either. plants are just as alive as animals. i agree none deserve to suffer (yeah tyson chicken and others commit horrible atrocities), but eating meat isn't the problem. the factory agriculture system is killing us, not meat. otherwise we'd have died of poison 100,000 years ago.

B12 is found in various forms of seaweed, supplements and if you grow your own food or source it from organic farmers who know how to treat their soil properly, plants will grow with good levels of usable b12. In a perfect World though right? You threaten the ATS cafeteria with truthful ways to better their life and they go ham thinking you are forcing beliefs down their Shepard pie hole. Why let what we evolved from dictate what we are evolving towards?

Don't you people see we have been slowly poisoned through many outlets. Changing our precious genetics into what? Restore yourself and repair what has been damaged by programmed lifestyle and environment by simply eating a diet that supports the cleansing of your body so it can have the energy to heal itself of the trauma you have inflicted. You've tried every piece of meat, cool. I'm sure your life isn't too shabby. If you have the strength and will power eliminate meat for 21 days and go on a high fruit diet next year when the season permits. Experiment with Life and have fun with your body to see what can make you feel the best. Or dont, whatever. You'll hear this story from someone in your family who is properly evolving.