Russia responds by sending S400 SAMs to Syria

originally posted by: threeeyesopen
a reply to: nwtrucker

Your post made me think back to the days I would play command & conquer etc on the PC and how I would always strategize for preemptive strikes and so on.

Makes me feel even more like we are all just part of a giant game.

A lot of recent events remind me of C&C. Did you play Generals? ISIS remind me of the GLA with all their 'technicals'.

Also the recent discovery of ISIS tunnels.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver

originally posted by: nwtrucker
A bit of an afterthought.

Perhaps we should revisit deploying the ABM system in eastern Europe?....

Europe has no need for US missiles, please keep them!

So speaks the Brit....who have their own ABM system....middle finger....pointed upward....

The queation is why have only us brits and the french developed ABM systems?

At the very least Germany should develop there own.

WW2 was only won cause all the allies pulled there weight. UK put tge same amount in as the USA and Australia and Canada did there best.

These days putting nukes aside could the USA fight a multi front war? Not just in manpower but economy?
The next best military in NATO is the UK and we can barely put a tenth in as you guys these days.

The USA should be pressureing European countrys to pick up the same GDP % tab as the USA so if SHTF the USA doesnt find itself on its own over extended with only weak allies to back it up.

Back to topic.

Has the S400 got a combat record? No. Everything looks good on paper, but it's the real use that counts.

This is a political move. Activating such a system over Syria at this moment in time would increase the risk of an accident with undesired reciprocal and reaction. For example, if a French fighter was shot at.

The Turkish and others could blockade Russian interests in Syria and make their life very complicated, all without firing a shot.

This is why deployment of the S400 missiles is a political move.

a reply to: paraphi

Has the S400 got a combat record? No. Everything looks good on paper, but it's the real use that counts.

Russia/Soviet always had superior missile systems. Remember Garry Power? No one at this time were believing anybody could do anything to such a fast plane like the U2.

Weapon design rely heavily on modeling, simulation and testing. Specific air defence system exist that have never done actual real kill, however pilots of attack platform fear such system, knowing if they get inside the guidance box it's all over.

I wouldn't bet my life that the S400 is just propaganda firework.

Anyway, I think there is a good chance we may soon see what this system is capable in real life.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly

Russia/Soviet always had superior missile systems. Remember Garry Power? No one at this time were believing anybody could do anything to such a fast plane like the U2.

Yes, so goes the urban myth. The fact is that S400 is an unproven missile system.

I have no doubt in Russian prowess in missile design. It's just S400 is unproven and its "on paper" fabulousness may not be worth the paper, so to speak.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: paraphi

Has the S400 got a combat record? No. Everything looks good on paper, but it's the real use that counts.

Russia/Soviet always had superior missile systems. Remember Garry Power? No one at this time were believing anybody could do anything to such a fast plane like the U2.

Weapon design rely heavily on modeling, simulation and testing. Specific air defence system exist that have never done actual real kill, however pilots of attack platform fear such system, knowing if they get inside the guidance box it's all over.

I wouldn't bet my life that the S400 is just propaganda firework.

Anyway, I think there is a good chance we may soon see what this system is capable in real life.

Minor point. The U2 worked at high altitude. Not a fast plane at all. I believe your thinking of the SR-71....high and very fast.

Turkey and Russia planned the jet incident
To give Russia excuse to put those s400s
Into Syria

The s400s are not for turkey they are for the
Western fleet Putin is placing his chess pieces

WW3 starts

Russia will invade yogoslavia and reach the Adriatic coast the Turkish leader will cry for quarter

They are in on it

This is a prophecy of Nostradamus
He also claimed
The French leaders will be lead into captivity
To turkey

How would the west react if Putin put those s400s in position without the jet incident

Think about it

originally posted by: piney
Turkey and Russia planned the jet incident
To give Russia excuse to put those s400s
Into Syria

The s400s are not for turkey they are for the
Western fleet Putin is placing his chess pieces

WW3 starts

Russia will invade yogoslavia and reach the Adriatic coast the Turkish leader will cry for quarter

They are in on it

This is a prophecy of Nostradamus
He also claimed
The French leaders will be lead into captivity
To turkey

Russia hands over the French leaders to turkey

How would the west react if Putin put those s400s in position without the jet incident

Think about it

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver

originally posted by: nwtrucker
A bit of an afterthought.

Perhaps we should revisit deploying the ABM system in eastern Europe?....

Europe has no need for US missiles, please keep them!

So speaks the Brit....who have their own ABM system....middle finger....pointed upward....

The queation is why have only us brits and the french developed ABM systems?

At the very least Germany should develop there own.

WW2 was only won cause all the allies pulled there weight. UK put tge same amount in as the USA and Australia and Canada did there best.

These days putting nukes aside could the USA fight a multi front war? Not just in manpower but economy?
The next best military in NATO is the UK and we can barely put a tenth in as you guys these days.

The USA should be pressureing European countrys to pick up the same GDP % tab as the USA so if SHTF the USA doesnt find itself on its own over extended with only weak allies to back it up.

That opens another can of worms. The EU has enough problems financially with it's poor members and immigration. Then there is no German equivalent these days from a military viewpoint. Except the nukes, of course. Russia, conventionally, is still is well behind the U.S. itself.

Then there's the fact that things are moving a bit quickly right now. Not really the time or the money to change things around the way you propose.

originally posted by: anzha

originally posted by: nwtrucker

Additionally, all the SAMs in the world won't help if the ground is overrun by troops.

I wonder how well the missile base would stand up to a MLRS salvo or TOW attack.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

Francis Gary Powers screwed up and never should have been there to begin with. But the U-2 is extremely slow flying.

Recently declassified reports on that event also show that something like five Soviet fighters were also shot down by their own sides missiles while trying to shoot the U-2 down.

a reply to: Zaphod58

But the U-2 is extremely slow flying.

My bad about the speed of the U-2, but it is still a good example for what I'm saying. The U-2 was believed to be immune to interception at the time.

It's easy afterward to say GP was a dick, but the fact is you got your but kicked good with this one.

I'm no Russian fan club but I find amusing the constant deny of their capabilities under minuscule budget. In fact the most dangerous thing with Americans (for themself) is the arrogance.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

really sad world most seeking revange

a reply to: PeterMcFly

I didn't say he was a dick (even though he was), but it's well documented by people that monitored the mission that he screwed up. The aircraft developed a problem that was an automatic abort, but he chose to continue the mission. He got so caught up with keeping up with the aircraft because of the problem it had that he didn't pay attention to his surroundings. A fact that came into play later, when he was killed flying a traffic helicopter. He was paying so much attention to other events going on that he failed to monitor his fuel state and ran out of fuel.

The Soviet and now Russian military has always had advanced missiles. But never quite as good as claimed. They did shock the US when they got the U-2, and later Soviet made missiles got at least 3 more between Taiwanese and US pilots. But to get Powers they also managed to nail their own aircraft and IIRC kill at least one of their own pilots.

If you bother to read my posts, I don't deny much that Russia has done, especially in the missile field. In fact I've said a number of times recently they're pulling ahead somewhat in that area, and our legacy fighter fleets are in serious trouble. I'm also not denying they did a good job getting Powers. Just looking at it realistically. It took a lot more than people think to do it, and it was a lot messier than people realize.

Russian/Syrian recent deployment of S-400/300 air defence systems blanketing Syria factor in successfully grounding all US and coalition aircraft.
www.rt.com...

a reply to: all2human

Yeah OK. And when strikes start up again, what are they going to claim then?

Thursday was a fairly major holiday in the US. With the pace of strikes being as low as it is giving the troops a few days off won't hurt any and it gives them time to compile targets.

a reply to: [post=20088146]Zaphod58[/post

Radar data for one

a reply to: Zaphod58

Anything you can share re: EW and the S400?

a reply to: all2human

The S400 radar has already been in Syria for several weeks. They're collecting a lot of data already.

a reply to: all2human

Thanks for the Link.