Satan's part in the Creation?

If you clicked on this thinking I'm a Satanist, sorry to disappoint you. However, there is a question that's been on my mind for the last few days and I thought I'd pose it to the community - did the Devil have a part in the Creation story? Hear me out...

Gen 1:3 "Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness

Here we clearly see God giving an order and I posit that it was Lucifer ("the light bearer") who carried out this order.

Clearly, I'm putting the creation of the universe before the Fall.

If I'm off my rocker, tell me why.

a reply to: scorpio84

Congratulations!!!! You are the 1 trillionth person to interpret the bible in some new and obscure way. Make sure you stay on the line to collect your prize.

You are off your rocker because you are taking ancient mythology as if it were actually meant to be descriptive of reality. It is as simple as that. Religion is whats wrong with the world. Peoples personal revelations and interpretations of what the bible is "trying" to say, or what this or that quote "really" means, is never ending. It's just a work of fiction like war of the worlds. Some people fell for that story too. Humans fall for stories all the time. The fall of man happened when he fell for the lies.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: scorpio84

Congratulations!!!! You are the 1 billionth person to interpret the bible. Make sure you stay on the line to collect your prize.

You are off your rocker because you are taking ancient mythology as if it were actually meant to be descriptive of reality. It is as simple as that. Religion is whats wrong with the world. Peoples personal revelations and interpretations of what the bible is "trying" to say, or what this or that quote "really" means, is never ending. It's just a work of fiction like war of the worlds. Some people fell for that story too. Humans fall for stories all the time.

Do you have proof of anything you said ? Or is it just your "interpretation" ? I am betting the latter.If you cant improve on the silence.....



Back on track. Very interesting post . Throughout Genesis you have such statements that makes one believe that more than God had a part. Especially when it comes to let US create man in OUR likeness. That is the one part I have never been able to explain .

a reply to: scorpio84

Interesting idea!

The problem is that Lucifer (the lightbearer) only appears in the modern bible once in Isaiah 14:12

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

This is a problem as in the original Hebrew, the Latin word Lucifer, (the Roman word for the morning star, or Venus,) was obviously not used.

The translation for the modern Bibles into English changed the original Hebrew text, which was about a Babylonian king described in the Torah as 'Helal, son of Shahar', (which in English is roughly 'Day star, son of the Dawn' ) and changed the nature of the passage from a fallen king and the effect on the area, to a new story about a fallen angel. Over the centuries this became as much as a part of bible myth as the cloven hooved red satan, and has no basis in the original.

This suggests strongly that the 'light bearer' angle of your op is incorrect, but the idea of the 'let there be light' statement being an order is interesting.

a reply to: scorpio84

If there is any mystical link to the divine origins of the earth here described in Genesis then I think of it more as God writing a code as a programmer (kind of metaphor).

"Let that colour be white" and it was white #FFFFFF.

Does not require any 2nd party.

There are certain legends that Satan was once God's right hand Angel and was given a responsibility for the earth. He could not do it God's way though; the original adultery in Heaven. Pride was born.

a reply to: scorpio84

God divided the light from the darkness

god divided (or seperated) lucifer (the light) from the darkness, so if there's no darkness in Lucifer why does it have such a bad image? Well thought out OP.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Just because it is fiction does not mean study and understanding of it as a truly ancient (though heavily revised) text is foolish. Any who know me know I lean towards anti-theism, but some of us find things interesting, that you yourself might not.

Peoples moaning on internet forums is never ending

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: scorpio84

Congratulations!!!! You are the 1 billionth person to interpret the bible. Make sure you stay on the line to collect your prize.

You are off your rocker because you are taking ancient mythology as if it were actually meant to be descriptive of reality. It is as simple as that. Religion is whats wrong with the world. Peoples personal revelations and interpretations of what the bible is "trying" to say, or what this or that quote "really" means, is never ending. It's just a work of fiction like war of the worlds. Some people fell for that story too. Humans fall for stories all the time.

Do you have proof of anything you said ? Or is it just your "interpretation" ? I am betting the latter.If you cant improve on the silence.....

Proof that the bible is mythology? Of course i have proof. The stories in the bible are full of talking animals and people doing impossible acts. Is that not proof enough? Do you really believe that thousands of people rose from their graves? Of course not, because it's mythology.

Lucifer was an archangel and presumably created before humans but before the separation of light from darkness? i dont know, was there heaven before the universe? I dont know.


what has this got to do with anything apart from a book written by loads of men over hundreds of years being analysed for further meaning where they isnt? i dont know!

a reply to: Learningman
And even that Isaiah ch14 quotation is addressed to the king of Babylon.

I have studied the bible my entire life. Along with greek and roman mythology, buddhist and samurai texts, among hundreds of others. I take it's literary existance very seriously. But never have i pretended it is a book of facts or a book to live your life by.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: scorpio84

Congratulations!!!! You are the 1 trillionth person to interpret the bible in some new and obscure way. Make sure you stay on the line to collect your prize.

You are off your rocker because you are taking ancient mythology as if it were actually meant to be descriptive of reality. It is as simple as that. Religion is whats wrong with the world. Peoples personal revelations and interpretations of what the bible is "trying" to say, or what this or that quote "really" means, is never ending. It's just a work of fiction like war of the worlds. Some people fell for that story too. Humans fall for stories all the time. The fall of man happened when he fell for the lies.

Kinda reminds me of John Lennon's frustration when people went to great lengths to find the hidden meaning in Beatles songs.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Beat ya to it

a reply to: Woodcarver

Let me simplify what I was saying when I replied. This thread IS NOT about whether or not you believe in any religion , it is about the use of the plurality in the bible and whether or not Satan had a part in Creation. And , again I repeat....If you cant improve on the silence....

a reply to: Gothmog

OP literally asked

Clearly, I'm putting the creation of the universe before the Fall.

If I'm off my rocker, tell me why.

I answered with what i felt was the most pertinent argument.

a reply to: Woodcarver

You were rather dismissive and rude to the OP. I thought it was an interesting question he raised. I am no Biblical scholar and don't have the answer, but if you don't understand what he is saying or have interest in his topic then simply move along instead of being a sanctimonious bag of hot air.

Satan in other mythologies is rarely hated or just 'evil' for the sake of it. In many 'holy' books he/she/it is an important and necessary yin to a yang. You can't just chose one side and condemn the other.
It was Revelation that turned me into a complete Satan supporter. All I read was how god suppressed everything that makes us human, such as music, arts, trading etc, whilst Satan tried desperately to free these oppressed people and bring knowledge.

I think the bible is part true accounts [all the boring: X begat Y business], part fiction [parables] and part added chinese whispers, changing the original meaning into something else.
In times of little broad communications, the bible was a practical tool to teach people right from wrong, going over the top, by changing characters into kinds of super heroes and villains to make it easier for the peasants to understand. Big good god vs Big evil guy.

I think the bible is kind of neat as a historic insight, however its content can not be trusted 100% and is 2000 years old [bar newer content during King James reign]. These things can't be ignored in a discussion, unless you made a concious decision to do so.

Therefore speculations as to the content of the bible and Satan or whatever, can only be made logically from a philosophical angle and discussed as actual facts.

a reply to: scorpio84

makes sense .. reading it as you wrote it

Even if I go .. he exists so he was part of creation
Even as people .. we were created We create .. Do we choose our jobs? Does your job title matter ? Do we do the jobs someone assigned to us? To what extend does this matter ?

Why was this so long on your mind?

Ok I'm not religious so I tend to have a metaphoric interpretation of the bible but here is my take on this topic. We could have a perfect world without death or pain or suffering if the "creator" chose to design reality like that. But instead we have a world which is a mix of "good" and "bad" things, life isn't perfect for anyone and all of us will have to go through hard times at one point or another in life. But would we truly be living if we didn't have to experience those "bad" things? Would we know the true value of happiness without also knowing sadness?

I think it's important to have a mix, everything in life is really about attaining the right balance, instead of believing it's one or the other. The whole concept of framing Satan/Lucifer as some evil villain is therefore totally ridiculous because God and Lucifer are clearly just two different sides of the same coin. Both are necessary and they both need each other to exist. I heard a good quote once, which was that opposition is necessary to grow as a person, because without having your ideas challenged you will never evolve in your understandings.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Woodcarver

You were rather dismissive and rude to the OP.

like when you said

simply move along instead of being a sanctimonious bag of hot air.

because i was not nearly as rude as you are being.

I am no Biblical scholar and don't have the answer.

well perhaps you should read the book that you have surrendered your life too.

This OP was flawed from the start. Those here who are biblical scholars, saw this from the start as was pointed out in learning man's post above.

My point is that people with no understanding of the bible and what it is, are constantly making posts such as the OP. And unlearned folks like yourself eat it up like a snipe hunt casserole. OP's such as this are the reason why people do not understand what the bible is.

You might as well ask " why does Godzilla hate Japanese people?"