Religion, the MSM, why are we 'still' sucking it up??? Are we really this dumb as a race?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: randyvs

" Science can tell us many things, but it can't tell
us what we ought to do"

we fought a vicious bloody war for the right to decide that for ourselves, and we celebrate it every year in july. after everything we have lost to secure our independence and civil rights, our right to sink or swim by our own steam, it would be pretty thickheaded to turn around and say "no wait i changed my mind". not to mention that you should know what you ought to do, or be able to figure it out at least, without having to refer to the encyclopedia of superstitions.

You restated the quote but failed to refute it any way.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: randyvs

" Science can tell us many things, but it can't tell
us what we ought to do"

we fought a vicious bloody war for the right to decide that for ourselves, and we celebrate it every year in july. after everything we have lost to secure our independence and civil rights, our right to sink or swim by our own steam, it would be pretty thickheaded to turn around and say "no wait i changed my mind". not to mention that you should know what you ought to do, or be able to figure it out at least, without having to refer to the encyclopedia of superstitions.

Hear hear! You/anyone can successfully be kind, caring, compassionate, loving, generous, benevolent, forgiving, gentle, remorseful, soulful, giving, selfless, beautiful, WITH OUT a religion. This is a fact, I see this every day. You can't argue with this, you don't have to be religious to be good or righteous.

a reply to: OpenEars123

You can't argue with this, you don't have to be religious to be good.

Trust me, this is not something you should argue.

Sure it's entirely possible to have all afore mentioned
virtues. Quite true! But what you can't argue is that
without God, everything is permissable.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: OpenEars123

You can't argue with this, you don't have to be religious to be good.

Trust me, this is not something you should argue.

Sure it's entirely possible to have all afore mentioned
virtues. Quite true! But what you can't argue is that
without God, everything is permissable.

I wasn't arguing that. I was stating that anyone can be as good, if not 'better' than a religious person, without relying on religion to be so. Religion doesn't make you 'good' or 'virtuous', simply 'being' good and making the right decisions gets you the same 'if not, better' results.

a reply to: OpenEars123

simply 'being' good and making the right decisions gets you the same 'if not, better' results.

Can you please expand on this for me my fellow member?

Results?

originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: TzarChasm

a reply to: randyvs

" Science can tell us many things, but it can't tell

us what we ought to do"

we fought a vicious bloody war for the right to decide that for ourselves, and we celebrate it every year in july. after everything we have lost to secure our independence and civil rights, our right to sink or swim by our own steam, it would be pretty thickheaded to turn around and say "no wait i changed my mind". not to mention that you should know what you ought to do, or be able to figure it out at least, without having to refer to the encyclopedia of superstitions.

You restated the quote but failed to refute it any way.

oh no, you are quite correct. science will not tell you what you ought to do anymore than the baghavad gita or the quran or the bible will tell you how to weigh particles or how to build a space telescope. this is because there is no science to morality or to the finnicky quirks of social etiquette. there is no science to love, or to grief, or to ecstasy. we can recreate these experiences using the same science that allows us to weigh particles or build space telescopes, but we cant recreate our appreciation. the magic of a moonlit stroll on the beach, or watching your child walk for the first time. it is from these experiences, where sentiment overrules reason, that we derive the essence of spirituality. we are still struggling to come to terms with our sentience without knowing its cause or its purpose, but again, i say: why does it matter? i sincerely believe that "where did we come from" and "why are we here" are irrelevant to the matter of "what do i do now". and circling back to the revolutionary war, "what do i do now" is a far more important question than "why am i here". because it lets YOU answer the question instead of someone else telling you what will make you happy. the whole reason we fought that war and the whole reason we are so afraid of the daesh putting holes in our boat. your criticism was oriented around science being unable to actually make a decision for you. im saying thats a strength, not a failing, as history clearly shows us. science wasnt intended to think for us anymore than hammers were designed to do their own pounding. but its easy to see how your roles models might have confused you as to the pros and cons of tools that think for themselves.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: OpenEars123

simply 'being' good and making the right decisions gets you the same 'if not, better' results.

Can you please expand on this for me my fellow member?

Results?

Of course Sir. I was trying to say that there are many amazing, giving people that are not religious. That are good in every way possible, without a book or supposed deity to guide them.
I was implying that they can be (and often are) better than devout religious people, simply because they have not been corrupted by the 'unknown'. They are literally good because they 'choose' to be, and this often occurs by making 'good' decisions.

Oh, and as for results. My life and what I see daily are the results. I have been down many roads and still know nothing. But what I learn from others is irrefutable, and others doesn't necessarily mean I know them. Just my observations, which I personally trust.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: TzarChasm

a reply to: randyvs

" Science can tell us many things, but it can't tell

us what we ought to do"

we fought a vicious bloody war for the right to decide that for ourselves, and we celebrate it every year in july. after everything we have lost to secure our independence and civil rights, our right to sink or swim by our own steam, it would be pretty thickheaded to turn around and say "no wait i changed my mind". not to mention that you should know what you ought to do, or be able to figure it out at least, without having to refer to the encyclopedia of superstitions.

You restated the quote but failed to refute it any way.

oh no, you are quite correct. science will not tell you what you ought to do anymore than the baghavad gita or the quran or the bible will tell you how to weigh particles or how to build a space telescope. this is because there is no science to morality or to the finnicky quirks of social etiquette. there is no science to love, or to grief, or to ecstasy. we can recreate these experiences using the same science that allows us to weigh particles or build space telescopes, but we cant recreate our appreciation. the magic of a moonlit stroll on the beach, or watching your child walk for the first time. it is from these experiences, where sentiment overrules reason, that we derive the essence of spirituality. we are still struggling to come to terms with our sentience without knowing its cause or its purpose, but again, i say: why does it matter? i sincerely believe that "where did we come from" and "why are we here" are irrelevant to the matter of "what do i do now". and circling back to the revolutionary war, "what do i do now" is a far more important question than "why am i here". because it lets YOU answer the question instead of someone else telling you what will make you happy. the whole reason we fought that war and the whole reason we are so afraid of the daesh putting holes in our boat. your criticism was oriented around science being unable to actually make a decision for you. im saying thats a strength, not a failing, as history clearly shows us. science wasnt intended to think for us anymore than hammers were designed to do their own pounding. but its easy to see how your roles models might have confused you as to the pros and cons of tools that think for themselves.

Woah....
And I thought I was going deep :-o

Very nice post, wish I could flag it

a reply to: TzarChasm

You don't have the first clew what I was talking about
and in fact. I'm surprised to see you know something of
what you're going on about.

I was drawing a comparison between science and God.
Not leaving any room for your patriotic appeals for
humanity. Before you write one word in reply answer me
one question.

What sounds like a better deal to you? An all knowing oracle
that mankind could go to in total trust, with any question?
Getting the best answer there could possibly to all our questions,
being the obvious know nothings we are?

Or the science of those know nothings? No analyzing no bush beating
just which one do you like better?

a reply to: OpenEars123

I consider atheist who get their philosophy from Dawkins to be just as much a sheep. Take from that what you will.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Great post.

originally posted by: randyvs
What sounds like a better deal to you? An all knowing oracle
that mankind could go to in total trust, with any question?
Getting the best answer there could possibly to all our questions,
being the obvious know nothings we are?

Or the science of those know nothings? No analyzing no bush beating
just which one do you like better?

Well that first choice is a total fantasy. So that really only leaves one choice to be the answer.

originally posted by: Whicker
a reply to: OpenEars123

I consider atheist who get their philosophy from Dawkins to be just as much a sheep. Take from that what you will.

Atheism doesn't require any knowledge of Dawkins.

originally posted by: Whicker
a reply to: OpenEars123

I consider atheist who get their philosophy from Dawkins to be just as much a sheep. Take from that what you will.

Dawkins is OK, not as open minded as I'd like.

But the fact that you mentioned him saying that people who follow his philosophies are basically sheep, 'bearing in mind' what religious people do with ancient books, I struggle not to see the irony and hypocrisy.
People in glass houses Sir..

a reply to: mOjOm

How the hell do you know mO?
You can't even answer the question the way I prescribed?
Who cares if it's a fantasy to you? That has nothing to do
with the answer you're avoiding. By saying it's fantasy you're
saying pretty much God doesn't exist. Hell even the OP knew
better than that.

originally posted by: OpenEars123
I mean ffs, and yes I know this is the DAILY FAIL. But us imbeciles read and PAY to read this every day!
Just look at the first 8ish stories, ALL speculation, and ALL there to attract your attention, regardless of the truthwww.dailymail.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.dailymail.co.uk...

This paper sucks, like The Sun, The Star, The independent, The Telegraph, The NY Times, #ing all of them! All bull#, and we ALL still buy them. I guess this is turning into a 'wake up' thread, and that was not the plan! But why don't we wake up???

Take solace in the fact that you see this information as speculation as opposed to fact. That's a start because not a lot a people can see it for what it is....

That's what I like about the majority of folks here....members can see BS a mile away and they will call it like they see it.

MSM stories posted here usually get chopped to bits from one side or another. But, at least they are chipping away to try and get to the truth.

The rest...well, they just take it hook line and sinker.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Whicker
a reply to: OpenEars123

I consider atheist who get their philosophy from Dawkins to be just as much a sheep. Take from that what you will.

Atheism doesn't require any knowledge of Dawkins.

Dammit, can everyone stop doing better posts than me! Lol 😁

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: TzarChasm



You don't have the first clew what I was talking about

and in fact. I'm surprised to see you know something of

what you're going on about.



I was drawing a comparison between science and God.

Not leaving any room for your patriotic appeals for

humanity. Before you write one word in reply answer me

one question.

apples and oranges buddy. but sure, go ahead.

What sounds like a better deal to you? An all knowing oracle

that mankind could go to in total trust, with any question?

Getting the best answer there could possibly to all our questions,

being the obvious know nothings we are?

most oracles are quacks. and the ones that arent, you cant tell because they respect the power of precognition enough to not bandy it about. being able to see the future or access information freely by the power of the mind would sound pretty cool to someone who didnt have the comprehension to nail down the defects...i saw something a while ago on a social media site. it was a comic called "scientifically accurate super powers", and it gave examples like superspeed that didnt come with supersight so you couldnt see where you were going while running at the speed of light, or a healing factor that turned on but not off, turning you into a quivering mass of muscle rendered useless by its own mass. or how about superhuman strength but not density, allowing you to put one good punch through a steel girder before you have to amputate your mangled limb or jump over a tall building before landing in a very unpleasant manner. short answer, every gift has its price.
i also feel like your description of this oracle is a bit lacking, like you just invented it or something.

Or the science of those know nothings? No analyzing no bush beating

im not sure what "know nothings" you are referring to, but the scientists i trust dont rely on a conspiracy forum to disseminate their opinions among the mass public. and they most certainly are not oracles. they show their work and defend their results and apply their education and are well respected for their success in all three.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: mOjOm

How the hell do you know mO?
You can't even answer the question the way I prescribed?
Who cares if it's a fantasy to you? that has nothing to do
with the answer you're avoiding.

If it actually existed that would be great. Who wouldn't want an oracle to go to for all your answers??? But does it exist??? If so where, cause I'd like to see it.

But to answer your question, sure, I'd go with choice one, if it was really an option. I don't see that as a real option however.

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
No offense, you're right......

I'm a Christian....I don't have a religion.......cool huh....just a moment to moment relationship,,,,,really helps a wild one like me....!.just talk yo Yahushua and He will yalk to you!!!!

correctamundo....we should stop sucking up the sharade

You realize that simply by speaking about it, you have now shoved it on the OP?

Geesh! /sarc

Usually calls to not shove religion down anyone's throat are really calls to simply go in a closet somewhere and die.