Transgender woman Vicky Thompson, 21, found dead in all male prison.

a reply to: Bennyzilla

Yea I get why you used the term, but regardless of what the term is, there isn't a medical condition for it.

I feel more confident in the "born with a penis therefore argument" because it can be proven without having to bend over backwards to make sense. Occam's razor mostly.

Are you sure you aren't just more comfortable with this definition because that is what you were taught growing up? What if while growing up you were taught the more fluid definition that is accepted now? Don't you think it would be easier to accept such things in that case?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t


"Dog-Person" isn't a legit medical diagnosis. Transgendered people have Gender Dysphoria.

Species Dysphoria definitely does exist and it very similar to gender-dysphoria. That is why I mention the guy that is suffering from species dysphoria.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Debunkology

I posted a link with a bunch of medical definitions of gender. Each of which was sourced from a different medical organization. YOU'VE given me just your opinion. Like I said, you are going to have to present a better counter-argument than just your disagreement here.

No. You quoted the definitions of "gender". However little do you know that I took them definitions and used them against you. But since you are so deluded you continue to simply ignore everything I said.

You have no argument.

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Darth_Prime

Whats disgusting is labeling all those who want to have a discussion about a very relevant topic as hateful.

Whats disgusting is lumping anyone who has questions about transgendered people as haters of the entire GLGBT community, or to imply that there is hate involved here at all.

Whats disgusting is how this isn't the first or last time you will use these tactics to stifle a conversation and shame those who have it.

Except most people here aren't asking questions or discussing anything of relevance. They're just slinging sh1t.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't get that. So a persons beliefs about who/what they are don't become real until some organization labels it? So before Transgendered people had a label they were just living out a fantasy that wasn't real - and then because a doctor or whomever wrote an article it "became" real?

I'm more comfortable with the definition because it has tangible, visceral, and visible proof. You can't show me an image of a transgendered persons chromosomes having XX with a little XY which is causing their brain to recognize itself as XY. You can provide plenty of research and studies that conclude this is whats going on, but at the end of the day it's still the answer that has the least assumptions that rings most true to me.

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Debunkology

I posted a link with a bunch of medical definitions of gender. Each of which was sourced from a different medical organization. YOU'VE given me just your opinion. Like I said, you are going to have to present a better counter-argument than just your disagreement here.

No. You quoted the definitions of "gender". However little do you know that I took them definitions and used them against you. But since you are so deluded you continue to simply ignore everything I said.

You have no argument.

Sure you did. Well it looks like we are done here. I bid you adieu.

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't get that. So a persons beliefs about who/what they are don't become real until some organization labels it? So before Transgendered people had a label they were just living out a fantasy that wasn't real - and then because a doctor or whomever wrote an article it "became" real?

Science can only talk about what it knows. If science and reality haven't aligned yet then we are going to be wrong about how the universe (in this case gender) works. It's just how it is. You accept that science was wrong in the past, make the appropriate corrections, and try not to make that mistake going forward.

I'm more comfortable with the definition because it has tangible, visceral, and visible proof. You can't show me an image of a transgendered persons chromosomes having XX with a little XY which is causing their brain to recognize itself as XY. You can provide plenty of research and studies that conclude this is whats going on, but at the end of the day it's still the answer that has the least assumptions that rings most true to me.

We are talking about the workings of the mind. At some point you have to leave behind tangible. But even so there is this:
Transsexual differences caught on brain scan

Antonio Guillamon‘s team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who’d had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females.

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). “It’s the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised,” Guillamon says.

In a separate study, the team used the same technique to compare white matter in 18 male-to-female transsexual people with that in 19 males and 19 females. Surprisingly, in each transsexual person’s brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.11.007). “Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female,” says Guillamon.

Guillamon isn’t sure whether the four regions are at all associated with notions of gender, but Ivanka Savic-Berglund at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, thinks they might be. One of the four regions – the superior longitudinal fascicle – is particularly interesting, she says. “It connects the parietal lobe [involved in sensory processing] and frontal lobe [involved in planning movement] and may have implications in body perception.”

A 2010 study of 121 transgender people found that 38 per cent realised they had gender variance by age 5. White matter differences could provide independent confirmation that such children might benefit from treatment to delay puberty.

How is that for tangible?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well we can assume that redefinition is politically motivated such as how the DSM has been changed. You know the DSM that says believing in conspiracy theories is a disorder (Paranoid Personality Disorder). The DSM that proponents of "gender dysphoria" say doesn't go far enough because the DSM still implies it is a treatable condition. See there is political maneuvering to undermine the very science they are using to justify their position. Its insane.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Why would we assume anything without direct evidence of it happening? That isn't very scientific at all.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So you are confident that every person who identifies as a transsexual or "gender dysphoric" has had their brain scanned and this is a legitimate medical diagnosis? What its a matter of a form of disassociative identity disorder? or schizophrenia?

a reply to: mOjOm

Even so, we all deserve to be lumped into that group simply for being here? A few are offensive so all are guilty?

originally posted by: Bennyzilla

Even so, we all deserve to be lumped into that group simply for being here? A few are offensive so all are guilty?

No, but not all are innocent either.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So you are confident that every person who identifies as a transsexual or "gender dysphoric" has had their brain scanned and this is a legitimate medical diagnosis? What its a matter of a form of disassociative identity disorder? or schizophrenia?

Confident? No. It is just one study, but the results are promising. So now we peer review it and see if it continues to hold true.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I think Santa mostly covered my opinions on the article you linked.

I agree with what you said here "We are talking about the workings of the mind. At some point you have to leave behind tangible."

The problem with that is, like Santa said, we don't know the motivations behind these studies. And when were leaving the tangible behind then we have to start trusting in the conclusions of others. I wish it wasn't so, but in my opinion most scientific research is bought and paid for by those with special interests. Ill say it before you ask: I don't know what would be "good enough" evidence, but it needs to be equally as compelling if not more so than than what currently exists.

Two studies of 121 transgendered people having the same results does point towards something, but in science you test and retest again. This was 2010, what has been done since?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Sure you did. Well it looks like we are done here. I bid you adieu.

Well you added the definitions of gender. And when it comes to identifying the gender of this unfortunate person.

1 – This person was born male with DNA that indicates that this person is MALE.
2 – The physiologically external features of this person indicated that this person is MALE
3 – Other people consider this person to be MALE to them
4 – This person’s legal status was MALE
5 – This person believed to be themselves FEMALE

You offered the definitions, I simply applied them definitions to see how we could identify this said person. And it looks to me that there are more indicators pointing to the fact that this person was in fact male.

A male that was suffering from gender dysphoria nonetheless.

And since you
1 – Cannot stifle the debate
2 – Accuse me of having fear

It looks like you have exhausted your weak argument. And yes, it’s also unfortunate that you did not know that species dysphoria exists too. Their experience is very similar to that of a person who is suffering from gender-dysphoria.

However, you consider a person “female” just because this person “believes themselves to be female” When all other indicators point otherwise. Which is like a person who calling a human a DOG just because that person “Believed themselves to be a dog”, when all other indicators point otherwise.

Hopefully you might come around to see just how far removed from reality your argument is.

a reply to: mOjOm

Somebody get this guy a medal



It's even worse you're aware not everyone is in that group and still choose to throw everyone in it.

a reply to: Bennyzilla

No, saying that she was trying to be a "Special Snowflake" or saying that i "Identify as God" are not having a discussion.

i welcome all discussion and Questions, that is the only way people can learn and i would never "Stifle" a conversation using these "Tactics"

i don't think i lumped anyone into anything, i don't think i said anyone was Disgusting for having Questions, or having a Conversations

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The DSM implies it is a treatable condition. There is no consensus about treatment though. Having that person dress as the identified gender is only one proposed treatment. I see it worked very well for the subject of the OP. The assumption is that if this guy had been allowed to indulge his fantasies he would not have killed himself yet we see instances of transsexuals who do just that yet still it doesn't work. My point really is you are trying to wax scientific about an issue which has very little scientific basis or consensus among the scientist actually studying it. In other words the science is still out despite your claims to the contrary.

a reply to: Bennyzilla

Here's more evidence:
Brain Mapping Gender Identity: What Makes A Boy A Girl?
Structural Connectivity Networks of Transgender People
Brain Imaging

It really isn't just two studies.

a reply to: Debunkology

Cool. That's awesome. I see you still have supplied no links backing anything you are saying up so there's that. Oh I've also moved on from this conversation. If you want to keep up, now you need to start debunking my brain scan studies that confirm what I'm talking about.