How To Respond When Someone Blames All Muslims

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: WhiteHat

But I wait for someone to come up with an idea about how to educate muslims to live in civilized countries.

Acting, behaving civilly towards one another has little to do with "civilization".

Edit: You want them to behave like you, speak your language, look like you. Thats culturally ignorant.

That's not being ignorant that's being patriotic. Western culture is incompatible with Sharia Law. Women shouldn't have to wear burkas or fear being raped or beaten by muslim men. People of other faiths shouldn't have to pay a tax to muslims to practice their faith. Artists shouldn't be attacked for drawing pictures of mohammad.

If they want to live in the west they need to adopt our laws and live peacefully with western culture.

a reply to: misskat1

With a 90 percent chance of not eating a handful of poisoned candy, sure I would not hesitate to do so.

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: misskat1

With a 90 percent chance of not eating a handful of poisoned candy, sure I would not hesitate to do so.

That was a really stupid thing to say.

a reply to: lucifershiningone

I have my proof, but you can prove it to yourself also by asking them. Men or women.
Or by visiting them at home, if you have access.
Or by reading testimonies of women and girls like that on internet.
Or you can ignore it all together and and keep believing what you want.

I'm not missionarizing, just sharing some experience on which I base my opinions.

originally posted by: WhiteHat

Well then the confusion was about your fear of ghettos instead of Muslims.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, it was exactly about not living among muslims, even in their best places.

Then in that case I resume my argument of you being xenophobic. You should have just stopped while you were ahead.

Let's put it other way.
I would probably go out with a black man if he's a good person, or marry him.
I would never go out with a muslim, no matter how good he is. I know girls who married good, moderate muslims; you never hear from them again, only the number of children they currently have. They passed straight into the Middle Age life style.
No muslim believes in equality between man and woman.

And now you put your foot in your mouth with a personal anecdote that is supposed to apply to the entire population of Muslims...

a reply to: lucifershiningone

Wondering why no one is discussing the video. Have any of the apologists bothered to fact check what Indonesia's women's rights are? After all, this is his main talking point right? "Muslim countries" being painted with the same brush. Because Indonesia isn't in the news as "radical", we must conclude that all of us don't have a legit concern regarding "Muslim countries". We're all being hysterical, bigoted, uniformed, naive and just flat out ignorant. Right?

Women’s Rights

A gender equality bill first submitted to parliament in 2009 remained stalled in 2013 due to opposition from Islamist politicians.

Meanwhile, discriminatory regulationscontinued to proliferate. An August update by Indonesia's official Commission on Violence against Women reported that national and local governments had passed 60 new discriminatory regulations in 2013. Indonesia has a total of 342 discriminatory regulations, including 79 local bylaws requiring women to wear the hijab. As of July, the Ministry of Home Affairs had signaled its intention to revoke only eight of them.

These regulations include one banning women from straddling motorcycles—only riding side-saddle is permitted—in Lhokseumawe, Aceh. In neighboring Bireuen, a local regulation prohibits women from dancing. In Gorontalo, Sulawesi Island, the government transferred its entire female support staff to other offices in July, replacing them with men as part of an initiative to discourage “extramarital affairs.”

In August, an education office in Prabumulih, southern Sumatra, cancelled plans to have high school girls undergo mandatory “virginity tests” to tackle “premarital sex and prostitution.” Despite a public outcry, plans are afoot to introduce similar tests in Pamekasan, East Java.Women’s Rights

A gender equality bill first submitted to parliament in 2009 remained stalled in 2013 due to opposition from Islamist politicians.

Meanwhile, discriminatory regulationscontinued to proliferate. An August update by Indonesia's official Commission on Violence against Women reported that national and local governments had passed 60 new discriminatory regulations in 2013. Indonesia has a total of 342 discriminatory regulations, including 79 local bylaws requiring women to wear the hijab. As of July, the Ministry of Home Affairs had signaled its intention to revoke only eight of them.

These regulations include one banning women from straddling motorcycles—only riding side-saddle is permitted—in Lhokseumawe, Aceh. In neighboring Bireuen, a local regulation prohibits women from dancing. In Gorontalo, Sulawesi Island, the government transferred its entire female support staff to other offices in July, replacing them with men as part of an initiative to discourage “extramarital affairs.”

In August, an education office in Prabumulih, southern Sumatra, cancelled plans to have high school girls undergo mandatory “virginity tests” to tackle “premarital sex and prostitution.” Despite a public outcry, plans are afoot to introduce similar tests in Pamekasan, East Java.

www.hrw.org...


Virgin tests. Yup, prove you're a virgin. Not only in high school, but for police service as well

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: misskat1

With a 90 percent chance of not eating a handful of poisoned candy, sure I would not hesitate to do so.

Yeah, that's what Charlie Sheen said

originally posted by: WhiteHat
a reply to: lucifershiningone

I have my proof, but you can prove it to yourself also by asking them. Men or women.
Or by visiting them at home, if you have access.
Or by reading testimonies of women and girls like that on internet.
Or you can ignore it all together and and keep believing what you want.

I'm not missionarizing, just sharing some experience on which I base my opinions.

All you had to say was NO, I was just generalizing.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Not that I hoped much to change your opinion.
But you asked and I answered.
My personal anecdotes are relevant to my life, to the place where I live, to the people around me. They are reality.
But if my reality doesn't apply to all ( a big "if") can you admit that your reality doesn't apply to all either?
Or that chap's reality in the video?
It will save people a lot of arguing and pointless accusations, really.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: intelligenthoodlum33

While it is true I don't spend every free moment online, reading hate and or doom porn, I pay attention.

I have not heard directly that a person has said "I hate ALL Muslims".

me either, in fact, I would love to see them at peace, if I hated them I wouldn't care.

but I see you can't use the word extremist or radicals, or terrorist?

Those words are what separate the good from the bad

originally posted by: FlySolo
we must conclude that all of us don't have a legit concern regarding "Muslim countries". We're all being hysterical, bigoted, uniformed, naive and just flat out ignorant. Right?

Yep...because it is most likely true.

I have met Muslims and worked with them. They were good decent people. Now are the entire Muslim population like that. I cannot say they are but people like you have no problem saying the opposite and spread it like it is fact.

a reply to: WhiteHat

I know exactly what personal anecdotes are and that is why they are dangerous. They let people attach beliefs about an entire demographic based on poor sampling and perception bias. They are also a logical fallacy. It's called an anecdote fallacy.

MY reality on the other hand is researched through facts and statistics. If I say something and you turn around and give me adequate evidence that I'm full of #, I'll admit I was wrong and change my tune. Trust me, I've done it MANY times while posting on ATS. But if you want me to do it, the "adequate evidence" criteria needs to be reached first. And adequate in my book is objective evidence. Anecdotes are ALL subjective evidence.

a reply to: lucifershiningone

People like me what? I never said all Muslims ever. I've said all of Islam in relative debates however, but that's not the same. I'm drawing attention to Indonesia in this thread.

a reply to: FlySolo

OK maybe not people like you, wouldn't know never looked at your post history.

It was me making an assumption..sucks right..

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Ok, so what is that you are saying actually?
Not all muslim are terrorists?
I agree with that. I never said otherwise.
You want to live among them? That's your personal preference, right? Is not mine, nor a lot of other people.
What else are you trying to say?
That is safe, as non-muslim woman to live among them? I will contradict you, but again is a matter of opinion.
What exactly you need to be shown?

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Oh yeah wow,they've got a building.im amazed how you've changed my whole perspective on things.....idiot.

that smartass thinks Islam is a religion, nope it's a cult

a reply to: lucifershiningone

I don't care if you assume as long as you accept information that proves the contrary. Most apologists won't even bother to fact check their points. It creates an uncomfortable feeling when they see their opponent's may be correct.

a reply to: WhiteHat

I'm saying that your opinions on Muslims are likely biased and not entirely true. I'm TRYING to present objective evidence showing that as the case. I'm trying to get you to think that MAYBE you don't know everything you think you do about the religion and that your opinions may have been negatively manipulated by negative stereotypes about them in the media. But then again, all that requires a willingness to admit to your mistakes. That is something many have difficulty doing. Even on the internet.

originally posted by: WhiteHat

This is how to educate those who fear Muslims.

I don't fear muslims. I just don't want to mix with them, especially as a woman. I guess we all know why.

But I wait for someone to come up with an idea about how to educate muslims to live in civilized countries.

Women are equal to men in Islam.

Just as women have been mistreated in the past in Christianity (and in the present in certain locations), there are certain locations where women have been mistreated in Islam.