How many of you have read the Quran?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I read it following 9/11. Sat for 2 weeks after work each night in the grass at the UofA, trying to not be distracted by all the sideways looks I got.

I comprehended it, but it did not "speak to me" the way the Bible has and does.

While it is not the blueprint for all things evil many westerners have painted it as, it is certainly not a blueprint for peace and love its adherents have portrayed it as, either.

originally posted by: Ectospasm
I am curious. I have not read it myself, but I am thinking about giving it a go. .

Its very hard reading. Makes leviticus seem like a childrens bedtime story. Written in 13th centurty English.

I have only skimmed through bits of it.

But like the Bible it is full of contradictions and you can find something to support whatever you want. Which I guess was the whole point. And an awful lot of stuuff that is nonsense unless you live in the Middle East in the 13th century.

originally posted by: Ectospasm
I am curious. I have not read it myself, but I am thinking about giving it a go. It seems to me that unless someone has read the book there is really no sensible basis on which it can be judged.

Unfortunately, the Quran never had the kind of scholarly editing that The Bible did, and as a result is a kind of mish-mash of a lot of inconsistent sayings and story fragments. It's pretty tough slog, and most of the people who are willing to kill and die for it have probably not personally read it in any great detail. Kind of like the Southern Baptists and the New Testament.

When presented with difficult philosophical texts, many people prefer to just get the "Cliff's Notes" from their local preacher. Unfortunately.

Evidence shows what a ruthless merciless doctrine, religion this is not just in our lifetimes, but history is littered with their evil,ask a Sikh.
To me the US Bill of Rights is what a human is written down for all of us to see.

a reply to: Ectospasm

Whats the point of reading a book, when you can see its effects on the minds of individuals through 1600 years of documented history?

a reply to: combatmaster

so that you can decide for yourself instead of relying on other people to think for you?

I am sure this has been pointed out.

But to properly read the Qur'an it should be read in Arabic

Now i have read some pretty big chunks of it from time to time.

I can guarantee you that most of the people who say "yeah i have read it" on this thread are probably full of it (in my opinion) not everyone but this is ATS....

originally posted by: Ectospasm
a reply to: djz3ro

Quite a few of the replies have stated that there was a lot of repetition, what was being repeated?

some of the verses. You read a verse and then a few pages later it reappears

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
But to properly read the Qur'an it should be read in Arabic.

Sure. Give absolutely no credit to the scholars who worked extremely hard to translate it as best they could. Also, I have to assume that "slaughter anyone who disagrees with you" in English translates to "love your neighbor" in Arabic.

P.S. -- But please feel free to supply an example of a really important saying or quote where the English translation completely failed to capture its meaning and intent.

what does a book have to do with human nature?

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
what does a book have to do with human nature?

Well, there are actually many books that through fictionalzation or analogy or even poetry offer some insights into the way people think and act, either alone or with each other or in relationship to baffling supernatural forces. It's not impossible.

But, sure. Books suck and whatever.

People aren't judging the Quran but those few who choose to interpret it's meaning into it being ok to lop off people's heads, drag people to their deaths and cause terror wherever they go...

a reply to: Ectospasm

I have! I actually recommend you & everyone else read it in its entirety at least once. Whether you accept it or not is up to you, but you'll probably realize fairly quickly that it's nothing like what you're hearing from some people in this thread. It contains rules; what's forbidden, required, and recommended of us; stories of the past; corrections of the alterations of other stories; and a lot of food for thought.

I normally suggest people make a note of any particular line they have a question about, then keep reading. Many of the things answer themselves as you keep reading. But you can also go online to check different translations & check for scholarly interpretations for each passage, too.

As a quick prepper, The Qur'an is divided by revelations, not chapters. They're called Surahs & Surats. So Qu'ran, 3:22 would be the 3rd Surah/Surat, and 22nd passage (called ayats, which are numbered). The very first Surah is the "Fatiha", which is probably both the most famous & most widely spoken Surah in the Qur'an (though critics never seem to quote it, which is telling). After that, it's typically listed from the longest Surah/Surat to the shortest. This makes it easy to start memorizing the Qur'an by learning the short ones first.

Here's a link to the full Pickthall translation, which is the translation we used growing up.

www.khayma.com...

And here are 2 other sites that have a bunch of other translations.

www.quranexplorer.com...
legacy.quran.com...

There's a really famous site I'm forgetting that lists even more translations. Oh, and you can also look on youtube for a ton of clips of people reciting different Surahs/Surats. Reciting from the Qur'an is practically a sport in many Islamic communities, kind of like Shakespeare & other similar recitals when I was growing up.

Hope that helps.

a reply to: Ectospasm

The funny thing is, you cannot read the Quran without an understanding of the Torah. So read the Torah first, then the Quran, then you will better understand it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Same can be said for the Old Testament good sir.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
what does a book have to do with human nature?

Well, there are actually many books that through fictionalzation or analogy or even poetry offer some insights into the way people think and act, either alone or with each other or in relationship to baffling supernatural forces. It's not impossible.

But, sure. Books suck and whatever.

and why do you think books suck?

regarding my statement obviously you didnt grasp the meaning of it. regardless of reading a book a human being will still succumb to natural behaviors. righteous or wrong. reading a book will not automatically make one holier then thou. reading a book about said religion will not help me to understand the individual who claims they are part of such a religion because again there is human nature and good as well as evil.

actions speak louder then words.

if you want an even better way to understand a group of individuals. how about observe them? study them? reading an ancient book like its some sort of instruction manual will not help you to decipher what is really going on with an entire group of people. it just wont work.

a reply to: intrptr

Right. So where in the western "faith" does it say its alright to invade, conquer and occupy other countries?

You're posing your questions as though I reside my faith in the Christian god. I do not. If you spend enough time reading the Bible, there is more than enough bloodshed to pick from as an example of how much Christians approve of Holy War.

It has little to do with faith.

To you maybe. But to the adherents that engage in Holy Warfare, your are naive.

if anything conquerors hide behind faith (or religion) to justify the most horrendous acts.
On both sides.

Again, you seem to be assuming that I am coming from a religious background. Which tells me you haven't actually bothered to read the post I initially wrote and internalized it.

The only thing left is to consider who is offensive and whom is defensive. Are the afghans defending their faith or their country. Anyone that tells you over there they are doing it for allah is lying.

Care to back that up with something substantial?

They are dong it for their freedom. Either that or they are collaborating with the enemy…. the US military.

You have no idea what you're talking about. At all.

a reply to: projectvxn

The only thing left is to consider who is offensive and whom is defensive. Are the afghans defending their faith or their country. Anyone that tells you over there they are doing it for allah is lying.


Care to back that up with something substantial?

Well, collaborators aren't going to tell you the truth, that makes them traitors to their countrymen. I mean the "ones you talk too". The rest of the people of Afghanistan know who the enemy is.

Let me ask you this. When you talk to them in their villages and they smile and shake your hand and promise to tell you where the Taliban are, do you believe them? Do you trust them with weapons? To watch your back?

I don't mean the collaborators, I mean the rest of the population.

a reply to: intrptr

Well, collaborators aren't going to tell you the truth, that makes them traitors to their countrymen. I mean the "ones you talk too". The rest of the people of Afghanistan know who the enemy is.

So you have nothing to back that up. Gotcha.

Let me ask you this. When you talk to them in their villages and they smile and shake your hand and promise to tell you where the Taliban are, do you believe them? Do you trust them with weapons? To watch your back?

I don't mean the collaborators, I mean the rest of the population.

You have this weird and totally ignorant view of what goes on in Afghanistan its absolutely comical. What I see here is that since you have no legitimate arguments for the points I brought up, you're attempting to make it about me. It's really a ridiculous attempt at deflection.