Pandemonium in Paris: Not ISIS?

I don't know who is behind this heinous attack, but I have learned from 9/11 and will no longer react with emotion. I don't have enough information to assess the situation and will withhold my judgment and subsequent solutions for when we have more data.

I refuse to be manipulated anymore.

originally posted by: RomeByFire
a reply to: soficrow

People unfortunately aren't too interested in the truth regarding IS. I, myself, have found comments removed and blocked for suggesting that IS has serious roots to the US and Saudi Arabia.

- Funded, armed, and trained the Mujahideen
- Funded, armed, and trained Al-Queda
- Funded, armed, and trained "moderate rebel groups"

So yes, I wouldn't say it's a far cry to say that we have, or continue to, fund, arm, and train IS.

Do people honestly think the American government and military wouldn't do that? Like they have some sort of morality? You do realize that they recruited Nazi scientists, and granted them amnesty, allowing them to work within government bodies? Learn basic history from the last six decades, you'd be surprised what the government does.

But man, people don't care, honestly. As one poster said, "no, just friggin no!!"

Obviously he/she has no desire to implore angles and perspectives, and rightfully so - but don't slam on your brakes and expect everyone else to stop just because you don't like the topic.

This is America, where you have the right to be offended at literally everything, but it should not debilitate myself and my freedoms, one of which, being speech.

What harm is being done by attempting to understand the complex nature of terrorism, and the geo-political scale of proxy-wars with an ever-changing line-up of "allies, terrorists, moderate terrorists?"

"Regardless of who did it, we need to remember those.."

So we need to remember those who lost their lives, but forget about who did it - and better yet, not even question who enabled the acts of terrorism - and again through arming, training, and funding, terrorist groups?

But I digress, remotely mentioning that IS has ties to the United States isn't insta-credibility kill, and it doesn't matter what sources/citations you provide.

The over-simplistic and emotional responses of, "no, just friggin no," it was tewwowists being tewwowists who wants to takes my fweedumbs, take precedent over any actual debate regarding IS.

Also worth mentioning, we invaded two sovereign nations based on attack they had nothing to do with, and for WMD's that were never found, and later to be told - were never there, and intelligence agencies knew about before the occupation.

Why this same force hasn't been deemed necessary to eliminate IS, is beyond me. My auto-correct had it right, it's because it's not about eliminating IS - it's about elongating IS.

Why?

Well, we have put much more of an emphasis on attempting to overthrow Assad than fighting IS. It, also, just so happens, that IS is, too, attempting to overthrow Assad.

Hmmmm.

Oh, and you may want to read The Grand Chessboard, as well as Between Two Ages: Americas role in the Technocratic Era.

This is not the acts of simple tewwowists, like the racist folks who attempted to bomb some churches in SC recently.

These guys have ties, and are backed by Western-nations who have interests in IS.

You can literally show folks videos of presidential candidates showing their viable support for IS (before IS became IS of course, when they were "moderate rebels"), and they still will pander to the view that it is "Muslim extremism."

Although dragon tales and imaginary princess stories surely have assisted to the "I kill in the name of God," flawed ideology, these ideologies don't mean much - however, give these ideologies one of the worlds biggest stages, prop them up, and watch it all unfold?

Problem. Reaction. Solution.

ATS has changed so much since I've joined, I think I may be moving on. The relentless rhetoric of those with little to no interest in these things, yet the continual shouting of the voice-box, denying ignorance is no longer a staple of discussion.

A man after my own heart.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I think the refugee issue was already obscuring climate change news. Support for the "War on Terrorism" was waning - but now it's not. Expect some major -and costly- resolutions to come out of this week's G20 summit.

I get that you don't think climate change deniers played a role in the Paris attacks - and suggest you might look at some of the other suspects. The last news I heard on the climate change conference was that it would be relocated, but sputnik news says no.

PARIS (Sputnik) — The upcoming 2015 UN Climate Conference in Paris (COP21) will not be canceled in the wake of deadly attacks that hit the French capital, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Saturday.

From November 30 to December 11, France is scheduled to host and chair the Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. The event is expected to result in the signing of a global agreement on climate change, introducing a legally binding and universal strategy on the issue.

"No, no, no, no, no, the COP21 must take place. It will be held in conditions of high security, since it is absolutely necessary for the conference to combat climate change. Of course, it will take place," Fabius told reporters.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

In all honesty ,the ones that would benefit to re-drawing the map of the middle east is the western money changers .If Syria falls apart then the pipe lines with gas and oil priced in USD will flow from SA to Europe and bypass Russia and put the brakes on the BRICS system .....

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
...You can teach dumb but you can't teach stupid.

...asking the most obvious question, "who benefits?" Is apparently lost on your average useless eater.

So who do you think benefits?

S&

a reply to: RomeByFire

Yup.

And you can take it further.

Much of ISIS is a fiction. It just isn't happening. A significant portion of the rest is the result of Western intelligence. A small portion is homegrown and labelled ISIS, ISIL, IS, Daesh, or whatever they're calling it this week.

You know there's something fishy when no one can settle on a name.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I don't know who is behind this heinous attack, but I have learned from 9/11 and will no longer react with emotion. I don't have enough information to assess the situation and will withhold my judgment and subsequent solutions for when we have more data.

I refuse to be manipulated anymore.

S&

...Any chance you can investigate? You clearly have an open mind, and that's what's needed.

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Regardless of who did it, we need to remember those that have lost their lives and of course the people they have left behind, for all of them, life will never be the same again.

True, and not to diminish my real sympathy - BUT - if we do not use our brains, NOW, life will never be the same again for any of us. These attacks will be used to justify greater surveillance and even less privacy round the world - and likely, WW3.

As the great John Lennon once said, 'All you need is love'.

Yes.

Life for us in the west changed on 9/11, this is a reminder of what we are up against.

Just like 9/11 a passport was found, this time next to one of the attackers identifying him as a Syrian. Rumours are spreading that the passport was used by a refugee to travel through Europe, although there are no reliable sources confirming this.

I agree that we need to question what has happened, but if there is an agenda by dark forces in the shadows, then we are being led into the abyss and I don't think people are willing to listen presently.

originally posted by: RomeByFire
a reply to: soficrow

...I wouldn't say it's a far cry to say that we have, or continue to, fund, arm, and train IS.

...What harm is being done by attempting to understand the complex nature of terrorism, and the geo-political scale of proxy-wars with an ever-changing line-up of "allies, terrorists, moderate terrorists?"

...The over-simplistic and emotional responses of, "no, just friggin no," it was tewwowists being tewwowists who wants to takes my fweedumbs, take precedent over any actual debate regarding IS.

...we have put much more of an emphasis on attempting to overthrow Assad than fighting IS. It, also, just so happens, that IS is, too, attempting to overthrow Assad.

Hmmmm.

Oh, and you may want to read The Grand Chessboard, as well as Between Two Ages: Americas role in the Technocratic Era.

This is not the acts of simple tewwowists, like the racist folks who attempted to bomb some churches in SC recently.

These guys have ties, and are backed by Western-nations who have interests in IS. ...

S&

GREAT rant. 'Tis indeed a tangled web. Many players, numerous agendas, all fitting together just so around the almighty dollar.

I've read some (or many?) of ISIS members were former Iraqi military (or intelligence) after the Saddam regime collapsed. Being it shares a border with Iraq... That might be a source of some of the hate towards teh western powers. The hatred was there already even before 2003. Some of the older Iraqi loyalists might have seen the first gulf war.

www.pbs.org - How Saddam’s Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS...
time.com - How Disbanding the Iraqi Army Fueled ISIS...

After nearly a year of air strikes led by the U.S. and ground attacks by the U.S.-trained Iraqi army, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) is proving to be a far more cagey and cunning foe than the Pentagon ever expected. A big reason for its success is the George W. Bush Administration’s decision to disband the Iraqi army shortly after the 2003 invasion—without the knowledge or consent of either the Pentagon or President.

This is about many things but religious extremism it is not.

People don't just randomly attack a 1st world city center like Paris at six locations without proper training and assistance, key word here assistance.

There really doesn't seem to be any degrees of separation when it comes to pretty much all western inteligence agencies. I'm sure NATO has much to do with that reality.

There is a dream of a Uni-polar world where the western ideals reign supreme. Those "western" ideals are not the same as those you and I hold dear friend, they are insidious and the true sight of terror. "Imagine a boot across your face for the rest of your life. "

Look around, people only care when it touches them and are so eager for the words of their government. Revenge us! Save us! And our governments are equally as eager to respond. They are after all here to serve us *wink,wink*

The world has become dependent on those who wish to do us harm. They do atrocious things to a people for decades and instill a deep seeded anger in them. Once they're nice and provoked, they turn around and finance those same people to harm their own citizens. Pit us against each other and in the end God will die. No Islam, no Christianity, no Atheism or Communism. There is just the state. And the state loves you.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

S& ...Agreed with one caveat - the "state" is corporate. Look to the so-called "free trade" agreements like the TPP and know it's about creating a global corporatocracy.

corporatocracy

A society or system that is governed or controlled by corporations

I find it strange that Innocent people are getting bombed, not the elite nor zionist. So if the story is to be believed, we have muslums terrorizing the french because the french won't let these muslums terrorize muslums. That sounds terribly illogical to my mind.

History shows time and time again that nations will plunder when they are on the verge of economic collapse so the timing of all these terrorist acts is interesting to say the least. But I have a feeling that these attacks will result in an attempt to try force Russia out of Syria.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Oh yeah. Forgot to post this. For what it's worth.

I would agree which is why I didn't call anyone or any specific government out. The inteligence agencies are all bat # crazy and have gone rogue. They only answer to their handlers which is no doubt those with all the gold.

If it was ISIS, they have made a huge strategical error with the Paris bombings. Big mistake.

originally posted by: samuraidawg
If it was ISIS, they have made a huge strategical error with the Paris bombings. Big mistake.

Kinda suggests it was not ISIS after all, doesn't it?

originally posted by: MrMasterMinder
The way i see it:

-We funded and trained isis to fight for us in Syria.
-Suddenly there is a immigrant crisis which is blown out of all proportion.
-We start rumors that ISIS might have been part of the immigrants.
-We pull false flag attacks in Paris using a group like Gladio.
-We can now have a legitimate reason to attack ISIS/Syria.

Classic false flag.

I love the way they found a Syrian passport at the Paris attacks. Hey why not? The public fell for that one at 911 so why not use it again?

Also id like to add, to anyone who's old enough : remember back in the 1980's when this whole "terrorism" thing started? We used to have terrorist events but they always had a purpose. It was usually to get some people set free. but these days we seem to just accept that there are terrorists that will go to massive lengths to pull off something like what happened in Paris or 911 just because they are evil.

Seriously there is nothing to gain for "ISIS" to do these attacks..the only response would be Europe destroying ISIS. It achieves nothing for them.

originally posted by: MrMasterMinder

originally posted by: MrMasterMinder
The way i see it:

-We funded and trained isis to fight for us in Syria.
-Suddenly there is a immigrant crisis which is blown out of all proportion.
-We start rumors that ISIS might have been part of the immigrants.
-We pull false flag attacks in Paris using a group like Gladio.
-We can now have a legitimate reason to attack ISIS/Syria.

Classic false flag.

I love the way they found a Syrian passport at the Paris attacks. Hey why not? The public fell for that one at 911 so why not use it again?

Seriously there is nothing to gain for "ISIS" to do these attacks..the only response would be Europe destroying ISIS. It achieves nothing for them.

S&

So the question is: Who benefits?

originally posted by: Jonjonj
No, just friggin no!!! Not every friggin thing is directed by some hidden secret evil power.
Evil is evil, it needs no excuses and it helps nobody to make excuses for it.

I really wish I could join you in sticking my fingers in my ears and yelling "lalalalalala." However, soficrow makes valid points about who benefits.

When your personal rights and freedoms continue to diminish all in the name of National Security to fight "terrorism" remember you aren't willing to question things and would rather keep those fingers firmly planted in your ears.

The truth of the matter is our government (and shadow government) does not have a stellar record when it comes to creating false flags to push agendas and narratives. These agendas and narratives have ALWAYS led to more money and power for them (the ruling elite).


George Orwell on Totalitarianism:
“A society living by and for continuous warfare in which the ruling caste have ceased to have any real function but succeed in clinging to power through force and fraud.”