You still bring up the Holy wars yet defend Muslims in modern times?!

a reply to: Lysergic No, that is not true. There are thousands of religious ideologies. But only one, Islam, and only a small segment of it, promotes slaughtering those who do not agree with it. This is the only contemporary religious ideology that supports groups that commit jihadi. Perhaps I am wrong -- perhaps there are other religions that do so today, but I am unaware of what they are.

a reply to: deadlyhope

That's because Christians won't strap on a bomb and blow up ATS.

a reply to: Abysha

The only difference is that Christianity has been around about 600 years longer and the church has evolved during this time.

Very true. So we just wait another 600 years until Muslims learn that they need not hate and kill all non-Muslims?

600 years ago it was the year 1415. Humanity was still far behind what it has accomplished today, so comparing the people living then to us now is a tad unfair. If anything, while Judaism and Christianity have evolved, Islam has devolved. How do we go from influencing and leading just about every form of learning to strapping bombs and leading suicide attacks?

a reply to: Breakthestreak

The idea is to allow things to fester as much as possible, line everything up nicely, then do the exact opposite of now.

Watching this is most entertaining indeed.

Just 2 years ago, everything was bad Islam, good West.

Then someone flips a switch and invents "ISIS" tells us it has existed and been talked about for years, Al-Qaeda disappears entirely from the radar after being totally dominant for 10 years........

Israel goes radio silent and so does the rest of the world, on the topics they used to scream from the rooftops back in oh so long ago 2013.

Amusing indeed, watching the efforts to totally smash all borders, mishmash all the broken ideologies into a cake-mix that will eventually do NOONE any good, and then still orchestrating things with dark magics, and carefully placed bombs and other controlled fools, cause total insanity, and THEN finally a solution of all solutions may appear.

It is interesting for sure, to observe this racket, the brainwashing, the tactics, and the sheer stupidity involved to make all of this work.

It is WORKING, everything being forcibly changed without most seeing a good reason for it.

And it should be far more exciting than it is now, once they finally coax those who await this chaos, to make a move.

a reply to: YouSir

I would say by your posting history...that you have no real issue with "Christianity"...but rather...with Catholicism...and with christian pretenders...with those who are taking on the name but not practicing much of what Christ taught...

So stop with the equating what a sect of Catholicism did centuries ago...to what Christians are in this century...human...with all the same foibles that you have...Let me be very clear...Catholicism is...NOT...Christianity...but rather just a small sect that was swallowed by greed and politics...

Catholicism isn't a "small sect" any more than you "used a few ellipses" in your post. There are an estimated 2.2 billion Christians in the world with 1.2 billion of those being Roman Catholic (a billion in the Latin Church and the rest in the Eastern Catholic Churches). That's 50% more members than all protestant denominations combined and something like 600% more members than the Eastern Orthodoxy (the second largest group). In the US, 20%+ of Christians are Catholics which makes it the most numerous here as well. The Quakers would be an example of a small sect of Christians (under 500k).

More to the point, the Catholic Church was the dominant influence in Western civilization from before the Fall of the Western Roman Empire right through to well after the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic Church is for all intents almost singularly responsible for the Christianization of the West. Regarding the Crusades; it would take more time than I choose to devote to this post to detail the entire taxonomy and history of Christendom and the events of the East-West Schism (which were taking place during the first four Crusades) but it suffices to say that at the time of the Crusades, there was basically only three groups: Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodoxy and the Oriental Orthodoxy (Copts, Armenian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc). Something like 98% of American Christians are either Catholic or members of a protestant denomination that didn't exist until after the reformation which occurred more than four centuries after the First Crusade and half a century after the last minor Crusade.

Let me be perfectly clear, I don't believe the Crusades are in any way, shape or form an excuse for anything. Nor do I have any interest in holding anyone living today responsible for something that happened over 500 years ago.

My intent is simply to explain why, regardless of your anti-Catholic sentiments, your "it was the Catholics!" argument is pure nonsense.

Christianity is New Testament centric...and really has nothing much to do with any of that "Old testament"..."Go ye therefore and smite the Canaanites"...schtick...that is more a part of Jewish tradition...
Yep...there are prophecies that describe the coming of Christ in the Old Testament...but that's about it...in a simplistic fashion of course...

Demonstrably wrong. That's the problem with making broad statements about ANY religion or really any group of people of appreciable size. The Christian fundamentalist movement was a direct response to modernism. Fundamentalist evangelicals are by far the most influential members of the Christian Right with ministries and organizations found/led by the likes of Robertson, Falwell, Graham, Dobson, Perkins, Warren, etc.

They tend to believe in literal interpretation of scripture (Creationism, young Earth, etc), the very OT notion that God is punishing us for tolerating homosexuals, legalizing same-sex marriage, abortion, and so on. They're also obsessed with end-times prophecy as you eluded to but what you left out is how this manifested in Christian Zionism (as Falwell once said, "To stand against Israel is to stand against God.").

I would say that the many if not most evangelical fundamentalists who make up the Christian Right have extremist views of Muslims (as a whole) that are not all that dissimilar to the extremist views of Christians and others held by their fundamentalist counterparts within Islam.

This is why in my opinion, they are just as anxious to see the breakout of an all out holy war in the ME as any ISIS/ISIL/Daesh supporter. Circumstances lead to this desire manifesting differently of course but the ultimate goal of ISIS isn't terrorism, it's the formation of a state capable of realizing their eliminationist ideology.

On the same note stop with the equivocation of Islam and Christianity...There's absolutely no comparison between the two... Again...an honest...open minded person might not have any disagreement with what I just stated...

That's funny considering you have an utter lack of objectivity.

The whole point is you wouldn't think it's reasonable to judge Christianity itself based on some of the terrible things that have been done by the church ITSELF, yet you want to judge Islam itself by a small group of radicals. How someone could not see the hypocrisy is beyond me.

originally posted by: TheJourney
The whole point is you wouldn't think it's reasonable to judge Christianity itself based on some of the terrible things that have been done by the church ITSELF, yet you want to judge Islam itself by a smal group of radicals. How someone could not see the hypocrisy is beyond me.

Actually, the problem comes when reading the Koran. Entire wars (Crusades) have been waged in the name of Christianity - but this is not a valid defense of what happens now in the name of Islam.

1). The Crusades happened centuries ago. It's over and no longer a valid excuse for Muslims to oppress and kill non-Muslims. Not that it was a valid excuse then.

2). Muslims who kill are following their leader, Muhammad. Christians who do so are going against the teachings of Jesus.

originally posted by: scorpio84

originally posted by: TheJourney
The whole point is you wouldn't think it's reasonable to judge Christianity itself based on some of the terrible things that have been done by the church ITSELF, yet you want to judge Islam itself by a smal group of radicals. How someone could not see the hypocrisy is beyond me.

Actually, the problem comes when reading the Koran. Entire wars (Crusades) have been waged in the name of Christianity - but this is not a valid defense of what happens now in the name of Islam.

1). The Crusades happened centuries ago. It's over and no longer a valid excuse for Muslims to oppress and kill non-Muslims. Not that it was a valid excuse then.

2). Muslims who kill are following their leader, Muhammad. Christians who do so are going against the teachings of Jesus.

Cuz there's no morally disturbing commands of god in the bible, and there's no calls to peace and love in the Quran. Picking and choosing what you use to characterize the religions, that's how you support the hypocrisy. The moral issue is judgment based on prejudice, something Jesus was very clearly against. But again, pick and choose.

People cant handle the truth, Jack Nickolson said it once, and it never gets old...

a reply to: theantediluvian


Ummm...hello Antideluvian...you have a great skill at cherry picking...

Demonstrably wrong. That's the problem with making broad statements about ANY religion or really any group of people of appreciable size. The Christian fundamentalist movement was a direct response to modernism. Fundamentalist evangelicals are by far the most influential members of the Christian Right with ministries and organizations found/led by the likes of Robertson, Falwell, Graham, Dobson, Perkins, Warren, etc. They tend to believe in literal interpretation of scripture (Creationism, young Earth, etc), the very OT notion that God is punishing us for tolerating homosexuals, legalizing same-sex marriage, abortion, and so on. They're also obsessed with end-times prophecy as you eluded to but what you left out is how this manifested in Christian Zionism (as Falwell once said, "To stand against Israel is to stand against God.").

Perhaps in your haste to ascribe meaning not found in my post you might have noticed that I was not speaking to fundamentalist christianity...rather...I was speaking to...

with Catholicism...and with christian pretenders...with those who are taking on the name but not practicing much of what Christ taught... Christ had very liberal ideals...he taught for us to love one another...to do no harm...to be inclusive...to be caretakers...to honor the small and the weak...to be charitable with the things we have while others have not... Sounds very pragmatic if you ask me...Sounds like what we need more of in this world...if your honest with yourself...

Furthermore When I spoke of Christianity...It had everything to do with the above quote from my post...
Also....had you not been so hasty to discredit...you might also have noticed that I was not ascribing Christian nature to those who take on the name of Christianity...yet fail to follow What Christ taught...

I merely attempted to place some distinction between...

Christ had very liberal ideals...he taught for us to love one another...to do no harm...to be inclusive...to be caretakers...to honor the small and the weak...to be charitable with the things we have while others have not... Sounds very pragmatic if you ask me...Sounds like what we need more of in this world...if your honest with yourself...

...and...

Fundamentalist evangelicals are by far the most influential members of the Christian Right with ministries and organizations found/led by the likes of Robertson, Falwell, Graham, Dobson, Perkins, Warren, etc.

Christian...adjective of, relating to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings...

I happen to agree with you about fundamentalism...in any form...yet this...

Christ had very liberal ideals...he taught for us to love one another...to do no harm...to be inclusive...to be caretakers...to honor the small and the weak...to be charitable with the things we have while others have not... Sounds very pragmatic if you ask me...Sounds like what we need more of in this world...if your honest with yourself...

I'm sure you could agree on...telling how you chose not to comment on that particular part of my post...which was the essence of my intent after all.........Sounds very objective to me...what do you think...?


Be well my friend




YouSir

a reply to: deadlyhope
Because unknown by many ..........even hypocrisy can blind. It all comes down to the nature of man.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
I'm not understanding this. Why, here on Ats is it a terrible offense to bring up modern day radical Islam/Muslims yet the anti Christian crew still brings up examples like the Holy wars.. Which was a portion of catholics, not all Christians in the first place, and was hundreds of years ago, and this is accepted as a reason to be against Christians in the minds of others.. Seriously?

There's a lot of peaceful Muslims. There's a lot of peaceful Christians.
This post is not anti Muslim, I realize there's a huge amount of them and that most of them are peaceful. So I go on...

Christians have their morals and are using their constitutional rights to express themselves, and attempt to influence legislation, which is also a right as legislation has to do with the will of the people. Nothing in the Constitution says to ignore the opinion of someone simply because they identify with a religion, the separation of church and state has to do with the way the government operates, and how it cannot sponsor religion. But.. These few Christians are hated by so many, passionately. Mention Christians on Ats, you get a huge crew of people spouting out nonsense against them.

Muslims have their own group that will shoot you, behead you, rape any woman not fully covering themselves, recent evidence shows they might plan larger scale terrorist events and coordinate events across a city. They are the cause of mass destabilization in Europe, the Syrians have been shown to be guns for hire, they will fight on whichever side pays them the most. So we have mercenaries who kill for money, we had AL queda, isis, we have crime commiting refugees... But to mention this on Ats, you get called xenophobic, ignorant, you get a posse of apologists and deniers.

I realize there's people on both sides of both issues, but the premise of this post.. It's ridiculous to group a few politicians and the Holy wars and attribute them to Christians, yet deny any wrong doing by a Muslim in modern times, just because it's a minority of them doing wrong ( though a lot more than the deniers think support the radicals..) especially since Christians are simply expressing opinions, even if they are hateful opinions... This isn't equal to rape and beheading and terrorism and never will be.

Deny ignorance fellow Ats members, I hope you have a good weekend.

-deadyhope

I'm not understanding this.

You don't realise why people are comparing a muslim holy war to a catholic holy war?

a reply to: symphonyofblase

No, I don't understand why it's nearly a ban-able offense to say "radical islam" but to bring up wars from long ago to bash on christians all day long is just peachy.

a reply to: deadlyhope

So are you saying that ATS is being selectively discriminatory.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Deny ignorance fellow Ats members, I hope you have a good weekend.

Deny ignorance?


Your OP showed quite a bit from my perspective,

example:

So we have mercenaries who kill for money, we had AL queda, isis, we have crime commiting refugees... But to mention this on Ats, you get called xenophobic, ignorant, you get a posse of apologists and deniers.

No,

people get called these things are those that are ignorant and xenophobic as per how they express their feelings and paint with a wide brush a whole group of people for the actions of a few.

It's ridiculous to group a few politicians and the Holy wars and attribute them to Christians, yet deny any wrong doing by a Muslim in modern times,

No,

Even Muslims on ATS don't deny this, they denounce it.

They give their opinion that its not really the Islam they know and practice but a warped radical view that doesn't have place in the Islam they know.

just because it's a minority of them doing wrong ( though a lot more than the deniers think support the radicals..)

So they are not deniers just have the wrong numbers of Muslims that support radicalism?

What are the real numbers? showing me a poll only shows me agendas by one group or another.

Do you support radical Islam and this is personal knowledge you hold or just more of the same fear talk based on numbers that cannot be proven?

especially since Christians are simply expressing opinions, even if they are hateful opinions... This isn't equal to rape and beheading and terrorism and never will be.

So a person of Christian faith hasn't Raped anyone, beheaded anyone or performed an act of terrorism in modern times?

Is that what you are saying?

One thing I agree on is the point you bring up at the start how one says this about Muslims then another brings up something about Christians or Jews.

It happens so often, I have done it as have many others.

It doesn't lead anywhere, it doesn't resolve anything. Its just a posters frustration showing in my opinion when that sort of reply isn't asked for. Sometimes its required as a response because like you have posted from my perspective implied that Christians don't behead, rape or cause terror in modern times, which is untrue. Every faith is guilty of all these things.

Yes Muslims might be getting the most spot light these days but these acts are not Muslim exclusives in modern times like you seemed to imply.

It just lengthens a thread with back and forth rhetoric which is justified in the posters and some readers eyes.

But it gets frustrating to read at times, for me at least even though I have done the same in past.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: symphonyofblase

No, I don't understand why it's nearly a ban-able offense to say "radical islam" but to bring up wars from long ago to bash on christians all day long is just peachy.

Deny ignorance fellow ats members?

Did you not post that?

Did you just get a warning from the mods for saying "radical Islam"?