Can you defend bringing a child into the world?

I've marveled for years at how people on sites like this can say everything's going to hell but the vast majority completely change their tune when one topic is brought up...

Having children

Then, generally speaking, the pessimists become optimists, the realists become delusional, and the optimists become giddy about the future. That's never made a bit of sense to me.

I made a decision when I was much younger not to have children because I am in the "everything's going to hell" group. How can I justify having a child when I think the world's increasingly becoming unfit for humans?

Five Reasons Why I Can't Recognize Humanity Anymore

How could I explain the above to a child when I can't explain it to myself? The above thread is just the tip of the iceberg. How could I look at myself in the mirror after being responsible for bringing someone into that madness (and it's worsening quickly)?

I can already hear many of the arguments that will follow:

Your child could be the savior.

This isn't a Hollywood movie. If someone could save the world, TPTB could and would stop them easily.

Without children, humanity would go extinct.

That implies that I'm a slave. So, just because we're born into a human body we have to slave away for the future?

I choose not to be a slave.

I don't want to be responsible for bringing anyone else into slavery either.

You're keeping someone from having the chance to live.

That's the whole point. I don't want to do that. This is not 1950s America, I almost certainly would have had a child in that environment.

Life goes on. I was born in the late 70s in the days of the Cold War and the prospects of nuclear Armageddon. I can't have kids, but would if I could. I'd just try to teach them not to live in fear of death and to make the most of their lives.

a reply to: Profusion

You'd have a child in the 50's?!?

Yes you should have a family. And family above all else because it's what they fear most.

Before religion and before government comes family, your children. Everything is designed to break apart that power structure and encourage you not to even bother. They've already won.

Strength in numbers.

Strength in unity.

I can promise you my children come first and they won't be raised to be pawns in the system.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

I'd just try to teach them not to live in fear of death and to make the most of their lives.

Thats falling on deaf ears. They don't listen anymore, to de education, lying politicians, official history; good for them.

What they got to look forward to? Endless war, endless debt, indentured servitude to menial jobs in mindless corporations.

When I discovered my 45 year old brother was going to have a millennial baby (after 911), I just shook my head. He's going to die in some foreign land running over an IED or become a mindless cog in a 'defense' plant, surely a churchian, a disneyland denizen, a text-iot, an arrogant, emotionless, self serving cretin. The final product at eighteen will be a 'good' soldier.

The experiment is proceeding according to plan.

I never knew unconditional love until I had children. ...and to be able to return that love is absolutely the best feeling in the world.... the world could stand to have more love in it..... and as always things are darkest before the dawn

a reply to: intrptr

You know what make "they" better than us?

Family. ....bloodlines, right?

You know what else makes them better than us?

They are winning the war, but they have lost many battles, yet they persevere. Whereas, many of us quit before it started and many others have lost hope. It's a generational war, class warfare and we need to be strong for our children. They take for themselves and their children and many of us aren't willi to defend for ourselves and our children. The family tie has been severed, divided and conquered.

We are so quick to give up what is inherently and undeniably ours.

I was born in 69. My daughter was born in 98, my son in 02.

For me, it all comes down to worldview: I don't see doom and gloom. The world has problems, to be sure, but it has always had problems. As a student of history I understand that -- for the most part -- and especially here in the west, the arc of progress has been a constant upward surge from barbarism and ignorance, towards greater bliss. I also understand that there are people who, through no fault of their own, are miswired or impaired and who can only react to the world through fear, anger, or hatred. So be it.

Nothing is ever certain. All future days are mortgaged by hope. Like many of you, I see this world as a nursery, but I also see the future in terms of "ages," epochs, aeons. Our children will one day inherit the stars. In ten million years we will fill the galaxy with human novelty, innovation, curiosity, joy, love and songs.

Side note: Long before I had children, I wrote and sang songs for righteous causes. I stood for the homeless, the lonely and other marginalized people. BUT I never knew or understood LOVE until the moment my daughter was born. I tried to be a good person, and often failed to live up to my own words and ideas, but I never loved anything more than I loved myself until my first child was born. It was a revelation. That love of another, which dwarfed my own self-love, taught me how to love unconditionally, and informed / improved my relationships with all of the people in my life, in a way that was transformative.

THAT is the experience your worldview denies you, and ultimately -- all of us.

"And as the snake is drowned and I look in your eyes, my fear begins to fade recalling all of the times I have died I will die that's alright I don't mind"

Look into the eyes of your own child and then you will understand why people do it...it's the closest you will ever be to something so pure and innocent.... you may as well be looking into the eyes of God

a reply to: intrptr
They potentially could have a great future if they didn't live off the fears of their parents. There has always been wars and currupt politicians kids today could live in a world where poverty is eliminated and the benefits of modern technology bring free energy, travel and scientific enlightenment. Don't scare them with the negative ATS narrative, tech them to be good humans and not to concentrate on materialism and other such abstractions.

a reply to: woodwardjnr
Yes, the soil is good on the flanks of the volcano. Ignore those rumblings beneath your feet son, nothing will come of it.

Tie a knot in it if you like, but children are the future.

The world may be a miserable place for some people born today, but who can judge their experience? A person born into the crappiest of crap-holes may still have a worthy, meaningful and enjoyable life.

My kids - and the kids of my family and friends, are all future packages of humanity that will enrich and enliven the world, mostly for the good.

People who think children should not be born into this world need to look at a child's smile.

a reply to: Profusion
We could be in the middle of WW3, and a world-wide famine. Guess what? People will still keep popping out babies. Know why? It's biological. Its built into us. We WILL have babies. We can't help ourselves. That drive for survival of the species rules us. We will rationalize every reason there could possibly be to have a child, even if we know that child is going to suffer in this world.

Having and/or caring for children makes the world worth defending. I'm fine with those who decide not to have children. I don't think everyone is cut out for the job. But if everyone decided it was not worth it, how fast would the human population deplete? Can that choice be defended?

The world is not that bad actually. Violent crime is down, enviromental awareness and technological innovation are at the forefront of our discussions. Human rights and discussions about cultural tolerance are high on the list of priorities. Corruption is being vetted and rooted up in every aspect of our authority structure. I cannot think of any other time in our history when the future looked so bright and promising. The fight must carry on. With or without your help. Being pessimistic and giving in to those who would subjegate you and make decisions for you is how the corruption has spread so far as it has. Awareness is the first step to solving any problem and we are more aware than ever before.

a reply to: Profusion

originally posted by: paraphi
The world may be a miserable place for some people born today, but who can judge their experience? A person born into the crappiest of crap-holes may still have a worthy, meaningful and enjoyable life.

The way I look at this issue, I'm making a proactive parental decision by not having a child. I'm deciding, before I'm a parent, that I don't want any potential future child I could have to live in this world.

From my point of view, your view on this issue would make parenting impossible. You could use the "who can judge their experience" argument for anything such as:

Why keep your children from vaccinations (if you think they're bad), who can judge their experience?

Why try to control your child's diet, who can judge their experience?

Why homeschool your child and deprive them of attending a public school, who can judge their experience?

The way I see it, your view on this issue precludes most of what people call "parenting." I don't see any validity to your argument. Care to elaborate?

a reply to: Profusion

You personally seeking an answer to defending children being brought into the world can start with your own mother and your birth from her. Then reflect inward, remembering your childhood experiences all the way up to adulthood and where you are now. The fact that you made it this far and are here with us today, still alive and well enough to reflect and type in a "world going to hell" and "awake" enough to seek this answer which the root of your answer is expressing concern for others pain, is the same force that drives forward continuing generations. This force just "is". The defense is the same defense applied to you and your existence. If you wanted to end your own life and I knew about it and was given the opportunity to talk to you, I would point out reasons to live and hug you if you would let me. In this world of "going to hell" we have to have comforters who are genuine whereas to each is a savior who can save another, either in the womb or well into old age.

Another question to ponder is why on earth the baby boomers made it this far having been produced at the time of nuclear war. That to me is a strange concept because its so dangerous and nuclear facilities are everywhere. That question goes back to the same answer above. We are just there for each other when it does "go to hell" some will survive.

I also read on another forum an anonymous poster expressing belief that reincarnation is passed through specific DNA. Meaning reincarnation only passes through family lines and manifests generations later. If this is true. (Not getting into other beliefs of reincarnation, sticking to this here to draw a point,) then that means the "gods of old" are gathering for the final event.

And my dear friend, listen to me. The fact that YOU are here in 2015 is incredible. Your generations from the beginning of time pushed forward to BRING YOU HERE. against all odds you are here. That is pure genius and survival of the fittest. You and your line are strong and amazing.

Thank you for being here.

The children may be the future however, they are guided and taught by dinosaur of the past self destructive ideas and principles about life, society, and their roles as slaves. The future is being born into poverty and ideological plagues. If the current generations do not get our act together the future will not be a hopeful place for our children. Historical revision, media manipulation, corporate ownership, mindless consumerism, rampant government PC and control of families, failing economics, war and violence globally. This is the present and I don't see it changing in the near future. Hell some people have children for government benefits, think about it.

a reply to: Profusion

Firstly, I support each individual's right to have as few or as many children as they want. Having said that, I could not bring a child into this world for several reasons, but most are different from the ones you mentioned, although some are similar. (Gender dysphoria and morality don't even enter into it.)

I do understand that not everyone sees it that way, and I fully support them having kids. It's an individual choice.

Before people are allowed to have kids they should have to pass a test to see if they are themselves mature enough to raise and take care of children. Very much like getting a drivers license. If you don't have enough sense to use your turn signals; you should't have kids.

Raising kids is the most responsible thing a person can do.

I never had kids because I realized that as an irresponsible drunk; their lives would have been miserable. Vasectomy at 20 yrs of age.

My freedom to come and go as I pleased was more important than leaving a legacy. Now that I'm much older I realize I made the right decision.

[/ only semi sarcastic]

Do what you want though...but keep your damn brats outa my yard.

Well my Son has warrior blood, If my daughter will be anything like her momma, she will be just fine.

I don't need to justify my children, they're part of this beautiful journey. Seeing my boys character, his soul through his eyes. That boy was meant to be born. Folks such as my entire family will survive and may be helpful in times of calamity.