Universal Salvation: God is Love and Love never fails

a reply to: Paradeox

"Let us sing praise to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for He is a loving God. Of His might and dominion, there is no compare; of His mercy and deliciousness, there is no equal. No other god can challenge Him; in the taste test, He is invincible. Through His pasta, He has blessed us with everlasting life, and holy is His Name. For He is the Flying Spaghetti Monster: the One, True, and Most High God, creator of man and midgit, giver of pasta, giver of sauce, from age to holy age; not created He was, but ever He lives, through the glory of spaghetti, now and forever. R'Amen.” -Ishmali Camuwundra

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgement for every empty word they have spoken.

a reply to: Paradeox

1John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

"God is love"? Empty words indeed.

Wasn't "Judgement Day" supposed to happen centuries ago? To the generation of people surrounding Jesus? What happened?

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
“Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
”Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
”Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
“Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."
”Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."
”And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
”But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."
”Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

Et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam.

There are two roads. One is life, with God, the other is death, separated from God. On that road of life with God are many pathways up the mountain to understanding and closeness with God. No one path is absolutely the right or wrong path, they all lead to the top of the mountain. Some are safer, some are quicker, some are easier, some have better views, but they all lead to the same mountain top, if through life you keep learning, climbing, guided by a pure heart, and always trying to be a better person to help others (Mark 12:30-31). In life you make the choice to climb that mountain and be closer to God or not. There are plenty of signposts and guides along the way. If you choose to ignore them that is your prerogative.

originally posted by: Paradeox
There are two roads. One is life, with God, the other is death, separated from God.

There is nothing to suggest that there are only two roads, and even if there were, that they both don't end in death.

On that road of life with God are many pathways up the mountain to understanding and closeness with God.

On another road there are many pathways up a mountain to understanding and closeness with the objective truth of reality.

No one path is absolutely the right or wrong path, they all lead to the top of the mountain. Some are safer, some are quicker, some are easier, some have better views, but they all lead to the same mountain top, if through life you keep learning, climbing, guided by a pure heart, and always trying to be a better person to help others (Mark 12:30-31). In life you make the choice to climb that mountain and be closer to God or not. There are plenty of signposts and guides along the way. If you choose to ignore them that is your prerogative.

On the road I am on, there are more signposts and guides pointing away from a single specific biblical God character than toward Him. Perhaps the objective road leads to a different mountain..



Metaphor and parable notwithstanding, I prefer the road that does not teach me to feel guilty for simply being born and having a life in the first place, and that I am doomed to eternal damnation if I don't accept and express this guilt through a lifetime of repentance and worship of a character in an historical novel that appears to be the fourth or fifth sequel of a series that ignores consistancy of continuity and is full of logical contradictions and mixed messages.

There are two roads. You believe or you don't. Nobody is going to carry you up that mountain. You seem fixated on trying to get in the way of others though. You seem to spend most of your time here in threads such as this. You take my words and without taking in the meaning twist them to suit yourself.

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:10-11
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Non-believers do not have a monopoly on objective reality. Science, knowledge, facts, belong to everyone. That is the food we all eat.

Many people don't get the message in religion. They don't understand it. They misinterpret and then use it as some kind of rule against religion and belief in God. There is no such rule. You take the positive and reject the negative. You spend your life seeking and learning, with new revelations every day from all religions, belief systems, teachers and experiences, or you don't. I'm not going to interpret the Bible for you and explain what every word means. That's your job, to find the meaning, instead of just latching onto the negative from a single source, your interpretation, or someone else's, and using it as a weapon to attack believers. That's not what this is about. You are here on our mountain. Stop trying to throw people off.

Check out these videos if interested.

a reply to: spygeek

I prefer the road that does not teach me to feel guilty for simply being born and having a life in the first place, and that I am doomed to eternal damnation if I don't accept and express this guilt through a lifetime of repentance and worship of a character...

None of that was the ideas expressed in the OP. You've add your own religious ideas to what was being expressed in the OP.

"God is love"? Empty words indeed.

I'll say it in another way: Love is the intelligent, eternal, creative force.

To be One with God is to be One with Love. To know Love, is to know God. To live through Love, is to live through God.

Love is the natural state of being. The lack of Love is "fallen nature". Love is the true purpose of Life.

a reply to: arpgme
I apologise, but they are not my religious ideas, they are the Christian church's. Perhaps the op could define which religious ideas are to be excluded from discussion in this religious thread?

A God that is literally love wouldn't try to teach me to love others and appreciate life by telling me that I, His own creation, is sinful and unrighteous by default and to live by His command is the only way to make it up to him. He would teach me to love others and appreciate life by leading by example and positive reinforcement, like an actually good parent who encourages independent thought.

I agree that love is an intelligence creative force. It is possessed by all humans whether they believe it or not. Noone is actually of this arbitrarily labeled, "fallen nature". (Actually, maybe sociopaths are, but that's a mental illness.)

I'm not sure the biblical "God", or any other such reprasentative character, expresses or demonstrates a sufficient level of love to be considered to be "perfect love" or a metaphysical embodiment of love.

a reply to: spygeek

I don't believe in being born of a fallen nature. I believe that fallen nature is when a person falls into misery and depression and begins to hate themselves and the world, but they can uplift themselves over time and overcome their depresssion and fall back in love with Life (themselves and others).


The point of this thread was to basically discuss a logical statement:

1) God is the eternal creator.

2) The nature of God, the eternal creator, is pure Love. Love is creative and hatred is destructive.

3) Therefore God's will is Love.

4) No one is more powerful than God.

4) Therefore God's will is always done.

5) And therefore no eternal hell and universal salvation is true.

For any action that anyone else does that is not loving and causes suffering, I believe Love allows it out of free-will as a lesson of Love and that one day humanity will see the error of its ways and will freely choose to value Love (not force with agression or threats of hell - except for the hell humanity creates itself with its own hatred, violence, and war with each other).



There are biblical verses which says these things, but then there are biblical verses which contradict itself (I believe God only inspired the loving verses of all texts, bible or any other book, since God is Love). This is why I said that my beliefs are not dependent on the bible and I would rather not make this a biblical discussion but a theological one based on the logical statement above.

There are people who believe God is Love, that God's will be done, but that eternal hell is real. That is a contradiction. So, this is more of a discussion of logic than faith (in any book/religion).


To answer your question about faith, I believe faith is logical too. I believe that there is an order of how faith works:

Belief/Faith causes energy which increases the possibility of something happening.

So faith is more of a tool and there can be beliefs/faiths not based on Love, but faith/belief in the power of Love is powerful.


I believe that logic/order/structure is important. If something has no nature/order/structure, then it's difficult to believe (for me). Our physical bodies require structure/order , and reality needs structure/order (cause and effect) in order for anything to happen.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
Love fails. Constantly.

The love you refer to is not the aforementioned. You're stupid.

With love,
God

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: spygeek

I don't believe in being born of a fallen nature. I believe that fallen nature is when a person falls into misery and depression and begins to hate themselves and the world, but they can uplift themselves over time and overcome their depresssion and fall back in love with Life (themselves and others).


The point of this thread was to basically discuss a logical statement:

1) God is the eternal creator.

2) The nature of God, the eternal creator, is pure Love. Love is creative and hatred is destructive.

3) Therefore God's will is Love.

4) No one is more powerful than God.

4) Therefore God's will is always done.

5) And therefore no eternal hell and universal salvation is true.

For any action that anyone else does that is not loving and causes suffering, I believe Love allows it out of free-will as a lesson of Love and that one day humanity will see the error of its ways and will freely choose to value Love (not force with agression or threats of hell - except for the hell humanity creates itself with its own hatred, violence, and war with each other).



There are biblical verses which says these things, but then there are biblical verses which contradict itself (I believe God only inspired the loving verses of all texts, bible or any other book, since God is Love). This is why I said that my beliefs are not dependent on the bible and I would rather not make this a biblical discussion but a theological one based on the logical statement above.

There are people who believe God is Love, that God's will be done, but that eternal hell is real. That is a contradiction. So, this is more of a discussion of logic than faith (in any book/religion).


To answer your question about faith, I believe faith is logical too. I believe that there is an order of how faith works:

Belief/Faith causes energy which increases the possibility of something happening.

So faith is more of a tool and there can be beliefs/faiths not based on Love, but faith/belief in the power of Love is powerful.


I believe that logic/order/structure is important. If something has no nature/order/structure, then it's difficult to believe (for me). Our physical bodies require structure/order , and reality needs structure/order (cause and effect) in order for anything to happen.





make something unexplainable happen

originally posted by: Paradeox
There are two roads. You believe or you don't. Nobody is going to carry you up that mountain. You seem fixated on trying to get in the way of others though. You seem to spend most of your time here in threads such as this. You take my words and without taking in the meaning twist them to suit yourself.

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:10-11
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Non-believers do not have a monopoly on objective reality. Science, knowledge, facts, belong to everyone. That is the food we all eat.

Many people don't get the message in religion. They don't understand it. They misinterpret and then use it as some kind of rule against religion and belief in God. There is no such rule. You take the positive and reject the negative. You spend your life seeking and learning, with new revelations every day from all religions, belief systems, teachers and experiences, or you don't. I'm not going to interpret the Bible for you and explain what every word means. That's your job, to find the meaning, instead of just latching onto the negative from a single source, your interpretation, or someone else's, and using it as a weapon to attack believers. That's not what this is about. You are here on our mountain. Stop trying to throw people off.

If within then also here or there progression in and out here and there then and now

Love cannot be perfect without hate. Both must exist side by side, and within each other.

a reply to: JohnathanDoe

Those are worldly teachings not of Heaven.

The world teaches of Good and evil, Light and darkness, Love and hatred, but Heaven teaches of Paradise, Love, and Perfection.