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Universal Salvation: God is Love and Love never fails

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posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 01:58 AM
a reply to: Akragon
Troy is one of a billion examples where love has led to the destruction of thousands.

Please please please religious people stop saying a sentence and then rearranging the same words to justify the point. It makes no sense. Are you even aware that you do it?

Love in the bible is undivided devotion not love. If love is obedience then we do have different ideas of what love is.They are too separate things. How can you love something without sensing it (not to be confused with wanting something to be true).

Can I not love my wife without having selfish tendencies? Does divine love need to be taught like all religions? Would you come to the same conclusions of love if it weren't for a charasmatic preacher in your life or if you were born in the middle east?

Unfortunately we both know the answer the difference is I am not as easily influenced by words as some.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:01 AM
a reply to: rossacus

Were you actually talking to me?

really had nothing to do with what I just said..

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:21 AM
a reply to: arpgme
God is love does not cut it as an explaination to a query.

If love is purposeful dam nation to suffer, bleed and die horrible deaths cos of his desire to place a fruit in the garden of Eden knowing fine well we would take it cos he knows everything and he created that desire, than that is not a love I wish to partake in. That is a calculated manipulative self fulfilling approach of a god who gains pleasure from this suffering, a crime punishable by death in most societies. I'm not sure of the word for sociopath when relating it to a deity.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:37 AM
a reply to: Akragon

You asked what kind of love that is. I said of human love. You admit love is powerful but won't admit the bad that can come with love.

You've never heard of a lover story in the bible that lead to suffering? Really?

I apologise if you feel I didn't answer any of your points, but I feel I clearly did.

Layman's terms time. How can you love without selflessness? Please explain this point. Every act has a self desire, whether it be to be accepted into the kingdom of heaven or to gain a warm fuzzy feeling of belonging. You would not attribute that desire with love because you ignore your human instincts of self preservation. To love without any self gain is near impossible, that love has a positive gain. I know you don't feel that way only cos it will destroy your notion of divine love.

Please give one example where love involves selflessness, not matter how destructive that relationship may be.

Please don't answer with rearranged sentences please as I genuinely would like to know your perspective on this, not someone else's terminology please.

With my previous response I did go ranting so I apologise. Think I tackled you selflessness concept a bit better here.
edit on 12-11-2015 by rossacus because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:42 AM
a reply to: rossacus

Please give one example where love involves selflessness, not matter how destructive that relationship may be.

Well... when someone does something for someone else without any expectation of a "return" on said charity...

that would be at least a qualifying aspect...


posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:46 AM
a reply to: Akragon
So that feeling you get of doing something good, that smile you gain from doing the right thing and helping someone isn't selflessness?

That's my point everything you do has a gain. You may have a concept of karma or if you lead a good life good things will happen to you. That is not selflessness and my point.

Another example please where you won't gain moral high ground type feelings. It is near impossible and we'll expressed in an episode if friends if you need to better understand the point I am making (not patronising)

I know we will differ on perspective but thankyou for the debate regardless
I would also point out your example isn't love based, more charitable. .
edit on 12-11-2015 by rossacus because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-11-2015 by rossacus because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:50 AM
a reply to: rossacus

Ok.. if we really need to go there...

Do you know what a "Personal Support Worker" does?

Look it up and get back to me

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:53 AM
a reply to: Akragon
Love again mate? Do they love their clients?
No example so get rude. I like it.
Feel free to think of a genuine example when the person doesn't have a gain, having a good sleep knowing they have done good.
I wouldn't spend too much time on it cos you won't be able to find one. Both examples you have expressed don't involve love, half of the premise of the question.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:54 AM

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: laminatedsoul

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: laminatedsoul

Begging shows a lack of Faith/Trust, but prayer is not the same as begging. Prayer can be an expression of Love and Gratitude.

Anyone who says god in their prayers.

sorry if you feel that involves you. to me, it does. god is a figment.

a mental malady. religion is a story to chain .. those who believe.

we don't pray for things we have. We give thanks for things we have. We pray for things we need. If god cannot already know these things, he is not all knowing, all seeing. And if he does know, yet waits for us to ask, he is waiting for us to beg.

A god who would let you suffer until you begged for his mercy, is no good I'd want looking over me.

Can you please define "We"...?

I'm hoping that you are not so presumptuous as to speak for me, for what I pray for, for what I perceive I need and what I want.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:55 AM
a reply to: rossacus

Yeah they do love their "clients"

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 02:56 AM
I reply and my replies go missing.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 03:00 AM
a reply to: Akragon
And they get no gain from it whether it be moral, spiritual or physical. You sir are hard work.

Saying you are correct of that notion would be far simpler than we could more onto a different subject. Digging you heels in doesn't change anything. Please stop giving an example for half the question.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 03:01 AM
a reply to: laminatedsoul
It's always the ones you spend alot of time composing aswell.

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 03:02 AM
a reply to: rossacus

Please tell me what gain I get from the work I do...

could you do it?

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 03:05 AM
a reply to: Akragon
Lmfao. Priceless. Could I tend for the disabled like I did my grandmother for 10 years. And here comes the self righteousness. Everything I have tried to explain you have just shown. That moral high ground, that sense of being better. The truth will set you free. Finally. And yes they are you clients, unless you have dedicated your entire work to just one person, then I would say you are terrible at your job.

That feeling of the good you have done is the gain. Your job is rotting g your brain and ability to understand. Why do you do your job. Go on...why? Tip toe your way round that one, can't wait should be good? You might need to spend an hour or so to write something that doesn't show a gain, or a simple 1 sentence answer like all religious answers to a question that needs to be expanded on.

F#ck it I won't respond anymore. You have shown your true colours and I overestimated you. Good day. I'm glad you found a selflessness cause.

edit on 12-11-2015 by rossacus because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-11-2015 by rossacus because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 03:12 AM
a reply to: rossacus


posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 05:36 AM
originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: spygeek

Is faith in love equal to faith in God?


So God is unnecessary for love.

Is faith necessary to understand love? Is love necessary to understand faith?

Faith = Belief/Trust.
Not all faith/beliefs are about Love.

Can you trust without love? Is trust not an act of love?

What is the difference between an athiest's love and theological love?

The understanding of it. A theist who believes God is Love will know that it is The Great Spiritual Force of Life, while an atheist may not understand it to that degree - but Love is Love whether it's the one who love is Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, or Atheist.

So faith is necessary to understand the spiritual force of love?

Is God's love defined differently to man's?

God is Love.
Human beings may be Loving, but God is Pure Love.
God = 100% Love (Pure)
Humans may have a darker side and not be 100%.

How is love quantified as a percentage? Do I only 89% love my wife, while God loves her 100%?
If God is a personification of love, He definitely has a dark side. The bible clearly describes this "dark side", particularly the old testament..

It is described biblically as being quite harsh and judgemental, and quite human.

"Biblically"? There's a lot of books in the canon of the bible with differing opinions. For example, this verse is of The Bible and says differently than what some other verses says in the old testament books:

"Luke 6:35-36King James Version (KJV)

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."

Is He merciful though? He certainly doesn't appear that way. I don't see many examples at all of Him "being kind to the unthankful and the evil", rather He likes to sadistically punish them, even in the new testament.

Where else is there an authority to go to regarding God's nature, besides religious texts?

Organised religion is responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against humanity, throughout history and here the 21st century, carried out in the name of "love". Is this God's will?

God's Will is not violence and suffering, but Love, because God is Love.

Love does no harm to its neighbour. Love is Life.

How is it possible for everything that happens to not be God's will? Does His will not manifest in literally every part of His creation?

So love is both God, and life?. Is a person God because they love and are alive? It seems that, under a religious definition, the term "love" takes on a vast number of contradictory applications and descriptions..

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I don't believe in religion, either. It can be helpful to some people, but God is beyond religion. God is Love and Love goes beyond race, gender, and religion.

Now I'm even more confused. The practice of believing in God is religious by definition. To say God is above religion is like saying numbers are above mathmatics. You can't have God without religion; you can't claim theism is secular in this manner..

You can believe in God and not practice religion, I grant you, but without religion there is no basis for a belief in God..

Can you clarify this for me?
edit on 12-11-2015 by spygeek because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 10:11 AM
a reply to: eluryh22

Sort of reminds me of a light-hearted conversation I had with a Deacon many moons ago... 

He said, "Next time you find yourself having to do something that you find unpleasant.... remember that it is for and of God." 

.....where you an altar boy/choir boy at the time?.....

posted on Nov, 12 2015 @ 11:14 AM
What kind of love? Love of self? Love of money? Love of control? There are many kinds of love that have motivated some of the most terrible acts in history.

In regard to Jehovah...war and jealousy are not love, they are symptoms of possessiveness. Rather than asking us what we want, fight over us. Rather than asking how we feel, get jealous and vindictive when we don't think of him first in all things. That's not love, that's controlling. That's unhealthy in any relationship. On earth, that would be grounds for "maybe we should start seeing other people".

posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:07 AM
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:16-17 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgement; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

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