Formula For PI Turns Up In Quantum Mechanics

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

There is no real chaos, because every system that appears chaotic is actually just following the basic laws of physics.

If everything on this magnetically contained planet was created from the same source, then this would have to be considered the most logical conclusion.

Maybe. But it could also be a logical conclusion if everything in this universe was created from the same source (the basic laws of physics).

sure. the big bang theory presents a reasonable solution, although the kinks are still being worked out.

I would be more surprised to not find it since it is seen in forms created by nature. These guys are easily WOW'ed.

a reply to: roadgravel

This is not about pi but the FORMULA used to derive it.

“We found the classic seventeenth century Wallis formula for pi, making us the first to derive it from physics, in general, and quantum mechanics, in particular.”

originally posted by: Aleister
Can someone with good knowledge of the subject explain this. Not quite a "Contact" (Carl Sagan book, later a film) level finding, but interesting and would be nice to know more about exactly what this is and what it means. Thanks.

Long story short: humans don't invent math or formulas. We just grasp and express them. We understand them. We discover them. But we don't invent them.

Beyond that: some formulas/ratios are harmonious enough to be worthy of repetition. Our fractal universe, which seems so mysterious, could likely all boil down to conservation of energy. Rather than reinvent the wheel, the universe repurposes giving a perception of a fractal nature.

Ok, that last bit is just a musing. But there is enormous mystery/beauty in seeing a chaotic system such as the universe find harmonious balance in the same way over and over. Even if it really is just simple elegance.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: roadgravel

This is not about pi but the FORMULA used to derive it.

“We found the classic seventeenth century Wallis formula for pi, making us the first to derive it from physics, in general, and quantum mechanics, in particular.”

Pi has no accurate expression other than the formulaic. You would write infinitely trying to express Pi accurately.

So you are right...but it would be impossible to prove out whether you found a match by analyzing the actual integers because Pi is an irrational number.

originally posted by: laminatedsoul
I thought PI was simply the definition of a part of nature, in that it is the the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter, which means that in any circle or sphere, it will exist. This would be true also for the energy orbit of the hydrogen atom.

I am highly bad at math however, but from what I can gather, at lower energy states, the orbit becomes less defined... while at higher energy states, it becomes more defined. So ..

"At the lower energy orbits, the path of the electron is fuzzy and spread out," Hagen explained. "At more excited states, the orbits become more sharply defined and the uncertainty in the radius decreases."

Nah I still don't really get it... lol

it means what exactly.. why is it actually going to change things?? Did god put this there? PI proves god doesn't exist you know, how can an all knowing creator have created something that is infinite and unknowable...

I'll stick to the temperature of beer. less orbiting and more pie...

Electron orbitals are like the spherical harmonic shapes you get:

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com...:ANd9GcQgDdtZ2fGS1289Dkn1JGZufOtE76GnYfq7W0DjkZscduMyUZIRivJlOzo

With a proton or hydrogen atom, the electron gets the whole floor space to itself. Start adding more protons, then there are more electrons, but they have to share the space evenly, so the next way is for each to have one half of the atom, and so on. Eventually, they get stacked on top of each other as electron shells. Heavy elements like Uranium have over 235 electrons, crowded like an apartment block.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

This is not about pi but the FORMULA used to derive it.

And therefore it is in natural world. Things in relationship to the Fibonacci sequence are in nature, a formula.

originally posted by: roadgravel
I would be more surprised to not find it since it is seen in forms created by nature. These guys are easily WOW'ed.

It kills me when I read stuff like this. It makes no sense. They're not easily wow'd. Look at the Mathematician from the article.

"It was a complete surprise - I jumped up and down when we got the Wallis formula out of equations for the hydrogen atom," said Friedmann. "The special thing is that it brings out a beautiful connection between physics and math. I find it fascinating that a purely mathematical formula from the 17th century characterizes a physical system that was discovered 300 years later."

She wasn't just wow'd, she was jumping up and down. So these guys are in good company.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

There is no real chaos, because every system that appears chaotic is actually just following the basic laws of physics.

If everything on this magnetically contained planet was created from the same source, then this would have to be considered the most logical conclusion.

Maybe. But it could also be a logical conclusion if everything in this universe was created from the same source (the basic laws of physics).
LOL

I was agreeing with you.

a reply to: roadgravel

I understand that but the point is that they discovered a formula for pi in quantum physics. You said they are easily wowed but why would they be after seeing patterns all the time in physics?

Taking your example, this would be akin to a formula for Fibonacci sequence revealing itself in nature without humans creating a formula for it.

I've never been too good at math other than what I need to do my job, but I've always seen it as a description of a thing rather than actually being a thing. Like a language, or a painting if you will.

I am highly bad at math however, but from what I can gather, at lower energy states, the orbit becomes less defined... while at higher energy states, it becomes more defined. So ..

a reply to: laminatedsoul

I thought PI was simply the definition of a part of nature, in that it is the the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter, which means that in any circle or sphere, it will exist. This would be true also for the energy orbit of the hydrogen atom.

Precisely, I don't really see anything special about this discovery, it's completely predictable. It's possible to approximate pi just by dropping sticks on a piece of paper.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: laminatedsoul

I thought PI was simply the definition of a part of nature, in that it is the the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter, which means that in any circle or sphere, it will exist. This would be true also for the energy orbit of the hydrogen atom.

Precisely, I don't really see anything special about this discovery, it's completely predictable. It's possible to approximate pi just by dropping sticks on a piece of paper.

But.. but quantum and stuff.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Does it really matter if you don't see anything special about the discovery? Maybe you don't understand why the Mathematician that co-authored the paper said this:

"It was a complete surprise - I jumped up and down when we got the Wallis formula out of equations for the hydrogen atom," said Friedmann. "The special thing is that it brings out a beautiful connection between physics and math. I find it fascinating that a purely mathematical formula from the 17th century characterizes a physical system that was discovered 300 years later."

Why was it a complete surprise? Because they didn't just find pi and this is what you fail to understand. Here's more:

“We didn’t just find pi,” said Tamar Friedmann, a visiting assistant professor of mathematics and a research associate of high energy physics, and co-author of a paper published this week in the Journal of Mathematical Physics. “We found the classic seventeenth century Wallis formula for pi, making us the first to derive it from physics, in general, and quantum mechanics, in particular.”

a reply to: neoholographic

What we call "material" seems to be like playdough which conforms and is shaped by information that's being processed.

That is a firm grip on matter.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Does it really matter if you don't see anything special about the discovery? Maybe you don't understand why the Mathematician that co-authored the paper said this:

"It was a complete surprise - I jumped up and down when we got the Wallis formula out of equations for the hydrogen atom," said Friedmann. "The special thing is that it brings out a beautiful connection between physics and math. I find it fascinating that a purely mathematical formula from the 17th century characterizes a physical system that was discovered 300 years later."

Why was it a complete surprise? Because they didn't just find pi and this is what you fail to understand. Here's more:

“We didn’t just find pi,” said Tamar Friedmann, a visiting assistant professor of mathematics and a research associate of high energy physics, and co-author of a paper published this week in the Journal of Mathematical Physics. “We found the classic seventeenth century Wallis formula for pi, making us the first to derive it from physics, in general, and quantum mechanics, in particular.”

awesome. and this proves what exactly? note the word proves.

a reply to: liteonit6969

What it means is that circles are somehow connected to the energy states of hydrogen atoms.

The guys are excited because the path they took in their work produced an interesting, unexpected, beautiful, result - not because the result was "new", but because it was fun.

Wake me up when bankers discover Euler's Number in interest calculations.

This isn't new, there could be a conspiracy angle.
Why not disclose earlier?
Other posters already mentioned the Black Knight satellite down link would be disclosed.

Maybe quantum randomness is really more deterministic as Einstein stated?

My Grandfather used to rant about Haley's comet causing the end of the world when I was about 7.
Maybe they were afraid of a man made Tunguska event triggering global destruction?
I thought he was just talking about the death of Mark Twain and the new mass media radio programming.

so cool......we do the same thing in the market.....harmonic Elliott waves....
retraces and projections.....have their own ratios to follow as they make the sqiggly lines everyday...
and line up eventually with the Fibonacci math

.
for instance, silver just made it's final low, and ya should go out and buy some....