Question for Islamic ATS Members

a reply to: anxiouswens

That is the letter from the Ukrainian DR right? That is not the intention of this thread, what we are asking from this thread is for members with direct communications from close family and friends to help us get a clear understanding without media hype one way or another and without bias, just communications from these millions of cell phones.

OK So Far we have had 1 taker with direct contact and communication!

Yes they do
I joined the military in 2000, hen 9/11 happened , then I spent the next 14 years in ME as a tool of the rich and powerful, I know that now
So yes I know ...1000's of Muslims 100's of refugees and dozens of terrorists, but I accept the FACT that if we hadn't been illegally blowing the s**t out of the area whilst raping their nations of their resources whilst propping up and supporting dictatorships......I seriously doubt we would be in this position, so perhaps it's justice or karma
We've invaded and destroyed countries and cultures for profit, now they escape the hell hole we've made for them and invade us (and consequently destroy our culture)
So really I see this as no different as what we've been doing to them except theirs is for a better life, not power and profit
a reply to: asen_y2k

a reply to: AlphaPred

The misconception that western civ has destroyed the once thriving ME and turned it to hell is just that, a misconception.

Some history on the ME and Islam...

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: rajas

Oh my I have to say that the quotes are probably the true sentiment of most rational intelligent peoples. I will refrain from further comments at this time, in this thread.

Id bet you they said the same when they burned witches

I beg to differ
It was western powers that ripped up the map of the Mid East and redrew it post ww2 (and other times) forcing opposing tribes and nations to live together
Before that the region was more stable than it is now where the nation states had set and developed their own boarders according to centuries of conflict and politics, much the same as EVERY OTHER NATION in the world has
Imagine if England decided that the west coast of the states Should be redrawn , with the north going to Canada, Alaska back to Russia and the south to Mexico, what do you think would be the blowback from that ?
Then England continually destabilises the area as to keep sympathetic regimes in power against the good of that nations people

But yes it is bit of a misconception
the ME never wanted to be westernised
And thus what we perceive as destruction of modern facilities and western ideals is just a rejection of a culture they don't want as consumerism and capitalism does not mix with the teachings of Mohamed .....or Christ for that matter
a reply to: combatmaster

a reply to: AlphaPred

did you even watch the full vid i posted?

did you not see the entrance into europe? you call that 'stable'? it makes todays refugee problem pale in comparison.
there was no such thing as consumerism or proper capitalism back then.... america didnt even exist! so yo ucant blame them.

Sure, today the western world isnt perfect... but that is not the problem in the ME, never was!

Alas no as I lack the connection atm, however a brief description of the time you are referring to will suffice
You could say I'm something of a student of history
a reply to: combatmaster

a reply to: AlphaPred

circa. 680ad

The fact that you haven't watched it makes it clear why you posted such a response.
Just watch the video, you will not regret it.

a reply to: AlphaPred
Sorry for going off-topic.... your avatar is absolutely the stuff of nightmares. Much more terrifying than an underwater shot. Gives me the creeps. Fantastic.

You could almost see the bugger coming out the toilet at you......as so many a child feared after seeing jaws back in the daya reply to: eluryh22

a reply to: AlphaPred

Listen, pal. I'm the guy that is in knee-high water at the beach and comes SPRINTING out of the water, arms flailing and all screaming (in a high-pitched-voice" "Get off me!!!", just because a bit of seaweed brushed against my ankle.

I'll take it you refer to the expansion of Islam westward across Europe? And events like the cordoba church in Spain (excuse my ignorance if I've misspelt)
So basically your comparing an actual invasion or at the least an expansion of an empire to the current situation? That's quite a leap...do you also consider the western wars in the ME the next crusade?
One could say Islam was initially pushing back against Rome, hell the Catholic bishop of Egypt INVITED the Muslim forces in to help remove the Romans

And whilst we're at it, how do you feel about the Roman Empire and its expansion? How's about the Vikings?, Spain?, England .......they all expanded their influence through violence and committed horrendous atrocities AT THEIR TIME in history much as the spread of Islam was THEIR TIME and their superiority at that time facilitated that
Same as every other empire throughout history
You could even call the USA the empire of this time and even go as far as to compare it to those events at that time
a reply to: combatmaster

a reply to: AlphaPred
lol... what are you talking about?

Islam was not an empire or a country.... it was a cult/religion which facilitated its growth from its earliest roots through conquering and bloodshed, not preaching or peaceful conversion.... so dont compare it to real countries or empires.
he proves it with historical fact in the video.
for the 3rd time, just watch the video... tell me if anything he says is historically wrong?

I shall when I can

And it may well be perfectly on the money, doesn't change the fact that the events of the 7th century is different to the events of today
That all conquerors of the past have done no different and no better
And that you're being incredibly selective of just whoms actions are acceptable throughout history

What about the western settlers in the Americas and the carnage they brought about .....not a nation....the spread of a religion/cult/group
How do you view them?

The actions of the west or more Specifically Europe over the last ....what 1400 years .... In the name of Christianity and its spread?



How's about this, the USA's ideals, no different to Islam, spreading its religion/cult of consumerism and capitalism through acts of aggression "conquering and bloodshed"

Have you seen some of the "little Americas dotted across the Mid East for oil workers and their families? where they demand and expect to be able to live as they would in the US, not to the standards of the host nation (beer pork skirt etc) and I bet you're the kind that jumps up and down when he sees halal meat.......

Anyways we've wondered kinda off topic
I hear what your saying, just think it's very narrow minded and bias
a reply to: combatmaster

Oddly a friend of mine from iraq, hates refugees He says now they're all the criminals. They saw how well off the original refugees were, and decided to give it a go..a reply to: antar

a reply to: AlphaPred

Im not saying anything.... just quoting parts from the video.

I bet you're the kind that jumps up and down when he sees halal meat.......

nope... i know more about halal laws AND kosher laws than you will probably ever know... it used to be my job!

i could go on but just get back to me after you watch the vid and tell me what u think!

originally posted by: combatmaster


Sure, today the western world isnt perfect... but that is not the problem in the ME, never was!

Balfour Declaration would say otherwise...

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

They have I-phones and can afford to pay a phone bill?????

Yes they can, they are not poor, are well dressed and fed.
Of all the asylum seekers there is only 15 to 20 percent coming from Syria, the others come from Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey, Nigeria, Sudan, Morocco, Tunisia and several other countries.
They want a better life, that is why they come to Europe.
Besides the I-phone, they also have money to pay smugglers for the journey across the mediterranean sea from Libya to Greece or Italy.
In Turkey they either pay smugglers for the trip to Greece, or they buy a boat for the trip.
The father of the young boy who drowned in the mediterranean sea -which was world news- did that to.
He bought a boat in order to cross the sea from Turkey to Greece.
They lived in Turkey for three years but he wanted to go to Europe and the rest is history, his wife and children did not survive the trip and he himself returned to Syria.

The sad story is that so many have died, hence that is why the EU send boats to patrol in the mediterranean sea in order to prevent more casualties.
The asylum seekers will not find their ideal Europe because there is no ideal Europe, for them the sobering reality is that they are now in an alien society and have to live in a shelter until they either are allowed to stay or their asylum is rejected and they must go back to their own country.
That makes the whole dangerous journey rather useless, a high risk for an ideal that isn't real, besides the risk quite expensive to.

a reply to: antar

Real question is:

If all these people are really desperate refuges;. How do they get they expensive phones anyway?

Umm can't feed my family, but can afford a $600 Iphone?