Question for Islamic ATS Members

Ouch
Sorry your ignorance actually hurt
Just coz we buy our phones from online or the local high street company and pay a monthly tariff by automated bank transfer......doesn't mean that's the way it works everywhere
Seen some mobile phone shops in some very unusual places in the ME, even knew a guy that paid in melons!
If you were suddenly on the run, had to grab something what would you take? Pretty sure your phone would be instinctive if only for contacting friends and relatives or certainly for the DATA stored
And then there's the ability to use local wifi on the devices WITHOUT a contract
The list goes on
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

And I find the 5 stars you've already received disturbing

a reply to: AlphaPred

OK, the people so far reporting in here are not most likely not on the run, or have direct relatives who are and that can answer some questions for me/us. Think about it, the only thing that comes to mind for most people when they think of the refugees are from the media pictures of war torn cities and desolate bombed countryside. They dont relate with what reality was for many of the refugees prior to the ongoing conflicts.

I would guess that when natural disasters strike the people of the US (where I am from) and their neighborhoods are BBQs and lemonade stands one minute and utter ruin the next from things like flood, tornadoes, mudslides and the like, when they flee their homes into the night one thing they will grab is a cell phone if they have it, so it is not so unusual that they all have in 2015 a cell phone.

NONE of us are safe from utter annihilation in this strange and unforgiving future.

Going to bed, carry on and I will check back when I wake or in the morning.

a reply to: antar

There’s a sense that “if you have any extra kind of product you are not deserving in some way.” What they don’t realize is that many of these people are educated and were well off, back home, in Syria for instance, but were forced out by a brutal war.

Deserving at whose expense?

If they were well off then they don't need to take from the citizens that are already struggling in their own countries. They can pay their own way. I guess the same way they are paying their phone bills.

It really doesn't address the the issue as the majority of those in these massive groups are not Syrian and not running from war.

I agree
I've just got my hackles up a bit recently about armchair activists that will find ANY reason to have a dig just to further their sentiments, without any knowlege critical thought or substanance behind it.....just kinda like multiple personalities maybe?....that mob mentality all trapped in one brain
Just point and shout
a reply to: antar

originally posted by: AlphaPred
Ouch
Sorry your ignorance actually hurt
Just coz we buy our phones from online or the local high street company and pay a monthly tariff by automated bank transfer......doesn't mean that's the way it works everywhere
Seen some mobile phone shops in some very unusual places in the ME, even knew a guy that paid in melons!
If you were suddenly on the run, had to grab something what would you take? Pretty sure your phone would be instinctive if only for contacting friends and relatives or certainly for the DATA stored
And then there's the ability to use local wifi on the devices WITHOUT a contract
The list goes on
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

And I find the 5 stars you've already received disturbing

I admit to being ignorant of a phone service that gives away free phone and WiFi service on this scale.

Please share your wonderful knowledge on how this can be achieved, because myself and thousands of other would like to utilize this gracious service. Probably the same ones that gave me the stars.

a reply to: antar

Over the past few days/weeks I've been reading through some of these Muslim Nations/European Nations threads and although I have tons to say.... I'll just mention one thought for the moment.

I'm sadly surprised that so many people have been played by Big Media and still, they have no idea. They STILL have no idea.

For the moment, put aside whatever anyone thinks the intentions are of those heading into Europe. Just follow the breadcrumbs that the Media has left, if you will.

Remember when this all started? What did the media tell us? They sold everyone (or at least tried to sell everyone) on the idea that these were almost exclusively "Refugees fleeing from war torn Syria."

Fast forward a few months and it has been demonstrated in so many ways by so many sources that many (seemingly a great majority) of people not only aren't coming from "war torn Syria" but not even from "war torn Anywhere." I'm sadly surprised that there are STILL people on THIS site that still seem to believe that ALL these people are running for their lives.

a reply to: eluryh22
Congratulations!

You have just become an honorable member of the racist xenophobe club and will very soon be described as an idiot, a clown, ignorant and or obtuse. You are not allowed to use any commonsense where the asylums seekers are concerned.

You will be informed that you are an evil, selfish, greedy, person that deserves to be invaded and have everything you ever worked or hoped for taken from you, because of actions done in the past by your government and ancestors. At the same time they will tell you, you are paranoid and are being deceived by the media, and none of this has ever even happened. It is all an exaggeration and all those short YouTube videos, if not faked, only occurred in small areas, in numerous different countries. As if that is supposed to make the events any less terrifying for the citizens of all those tiny places, in all of those countries.

They are going to try to educate to the idea that It is all a lie and all the asylum seekers are Syrians or terrified people fleeing for their lives, as their countries are being ripped to shreds by your governments and their allies, or peace loving Muslims that just want to live in peace and wouldn't hurt a fly. And if you don't immediately change the way you think and assimilate to the ways and customs of your new overlords then you deserve what you are going to get.

So give everything you have. It is called sharing.

a reply to: antar

Another thought I just had (and I'm reluctant to ask because it is not my intention to derail your post and admittedly this may deserve it's own thread)... but I have to ask...

Why not ask people living in the towns and villages where the migrants/refugees/etc are establishing themselves to report on what they are seeing and experiencing?

Just a thought.
Two sides to a coin and all that...

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: reldra

I am really trying not to put out some of my deeper thoughts on this quite yet, questions of those who have answers may ultimately negate them anyway. One thing I will say is that I have witnessed whether real or my own observations askewed in a few of the more violent video's of refugee camps and "cities" individuals who seemed to me to be simply going along with the crowd mind. To me that shows me individuals who have been placed into that survival mode I wrote about in the OP.

A Story for you,

No other man is comparable to Al-Hillaj in the Sufi tradion. Many people have been murdered in the past by so called religious people. Jesus was simply crucified, but Mansoor was cut into pieces. He was crucified and first his legs were cut off- and he was alive-then his hands were cut off- and he was alive. Then his tongue was cut out/ then his eyes were taken out- and he was alive.- and then his neck was cut.
And what crime had Monsoor committed? the only crime was this, that he had said Ana'l Hak! "I am the truth, I am God!" In India he would have been worshiped for centuries, but Mohammedans could not tolerate it.

A hundred thousand people had gathered to throw stones at Mansoor, to ridicule him. Monsoor was laughing. When his feet were cut off, he took the blood in his hands... and somebody asked him what he was doing? Monsoor said "How can you wash your hands with water?- because crimes you commit with your blood, sins you commit with your blood, only blood can be the purification. I am purifying my hands, I am getting ready for prayer."

When they started to cut off his hands he said "wait a minute! let me pray now, because when my hands are no more it will be difficult." So he looked at the sky and he said to God, "you cannot deceive me- I can see you in everybody present here! You have come as the murder? As the enemy? You cannot deceive me- in whatsoever form you come I will recognize you- because I have recognized you within myself!"

People were throwing stones and mud at him in ridicule, and Monsoor was laughing and smiling. But suddenly he began to cry... because Shibli, his friend, his disciple, had thrown a rose.

Again the people were mystified, and again they asked why, Monsoor said " the people who are throwing stones don't know what they are doing, but Shibli knows- he has to know, for him it will be difficult to get forgiveness from God.

Afterward Shibli was asked why he had thrown the rose, he said " I was afraid of the crowd, if I didn't throw anything I was afraid they might get violent towards me. I could not throw stones because because I knew Monsoor was innocent. But I also couldn't gather the courage to not throw anything.
The flower was just a compromise. And Monsoor wept at my fear, my cowardliness."

Monsoors tears changed Shibli completly, became a transformation for him. It took at least 12 years for him, of wandering like a vagabond, a beggar, continuously weeping in the most heart rendering anguish. His whole life he repented. He would say "I have murdered Monsoor, nobody else there was responsible, but I could have understood, I could have saved him, but I compromised with the crowd- I threw a flower at that man."

Repentance can become very very deep phenomenon if you understand the responsibility. Then even a small thing , if it goes deep into your roots, if the tears come not only out of your eyes but out of every cell of your body, can become a transfiguration.
This is what a a Master, only a great Master can do. A Master goes on while alive or while dying, or even when already dead- he goes on using every opportunity to transform people.

*From Oshoneo-tarot* #52*

I really enjoyed reading that. I found sites selling this tarot deck, but no more stories. Where should I look?

*edit: I found oshosearch.net More than enough to read on there.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: antar

There’s a sense that “if you have any extra kind of product you are not deserving in some way.” What they don’t realize is that many of these people are educated and were well off, back home, in Syria for instance, but were forced out by a brutal war.

Deserving at whose expense?

If they were well off then they don't need to take from the citizens that are already struggling in their own countries. They can pay their own way. I guess the same way they are paying their phone bills.

It really doesn't address the the issue as the majority of those in these massive groups are not Syrian and not running from war.

If you find wifi, there are about 50 different calling and texting apps that are free.

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: antar

Another thought I just had (and I'm reluctant to ask because it is not my intention to derail your post and admittedly this may deserve it's own thread)... but I have to ask...

Why not ask people living in the towns and villages where the migrants/refugees/etc are establishing themselves to report on what they are seeing and experiencing?

Just a thought.
Two sides to a coin and all that...

This post was made since we have seen countless videos and news stories about that. This question was unique. I think it;s clear in the OP.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: antar

Another thought I just had (and I'm reluctant to ask because it is not my intention to derail your post and admittedly this may deserve it's own thread)... but I have to ask...

Why not ask people living in the towns and villages where the migrants/refugees/etc are establishing themselves to report on what they are seeing and experiencing?

Just a thought.
Two sides to a coin and all that...

This post was made since we have seen countless videos and news stories about that. This question was unique. I think it;s clear in the OP.

It is definitely possible that I missed those posts. I have seen posts providing 'links' to articles that claim to 'portray' what is going on over there.... but I don't recall a specific request for people living over there to explain what they are seeing.

I would appreciate it if you could direct me to some of those (just a friendly request).

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: antar

Over the past few days/weeks I've been reading through some of these Muslim Nations/European Nations threads and although I have tons to say.... I'll just mention one thought for the moment.

I'm sadly surprised that so many people have been played by Big Media and still, they have no idea. They STILL have no idea.

For the moment, put aside whatever anyone thinks the intentions are of those heading into Europe. Just follow the breadcrumbs that the Media has left, if you will.

Remember when this all started? What did the media tell us? They sold everyone (or at least tried to sell everyone) on the idea that these were almost exclusively "Refugees fleeing from war torn Syria."

Fast forward a few months and it has been demonstrated in so many ways by so many sources that many (seemingly a great majority) of people not only aren't coming from "war torn Syria" but not even from "war torn Anywhere." I'm sadly surprised that there are STILL people on THIS site that still seem to believe that ALL these people are running for their lives.

What sources?

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: antar

Another thought I just had (and I'm reluctant to ask because it is not my intention to derail your post and admittedly this may deserve it's own thread)... but I have to ask...

Why not ask people living in the towns and villages where the migrants/refugees/etc are establishing themselves to report on what they are seeing and experiencing?

Just a thought.
Two sides to a coin and all that...

This post was made since we have seen countless videos and news stories about that. This question was unique. I think it;s clear in the OP.

It is definitely possible that I missed those posts. I have seen posts providing 'links' to articles that claim to 'portray' what is going on over there.... but I don't recall a specific request for people living over there to explain what they are seeing.

I would appreciate it if you could direct me to some of those (just a friendly request).

Here's 1 from earlier tonight where someone who is in (I think) Sweden, posted what she says is happening in her country ATS link The OP is not specifically asking for that, but it produces some answer. I don't see why someone shouldn't make a thread asking exactly that, for first hand accounts from residents.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: antar

Over the past few days/weeks I've been reading through some of these Muslim Nations/European Nations threads and although I have tons to say.... I'll just mention one thought for the moment.

I'm sadly surprised that so many people have been played by Big Media and still, they have no idea. They STILL have no idea.

For the moment, put aside whatever anyone thinks the intentions are of those heading into Europe. Just follow the breadcrumbs that the Media has left, if you will.

Remember when this all started? What did the media tell us? They sold everyone (or at least tried to sell everyone) on the idea that these were almost exclusively "Refugees fleeing from war torn Syria."

Fast forward a few months and it has been demonstrated in so many ways by so many sources that many (seemingly a great majority) of people not only aren't coming from "war torn Syria" but not even from "war torn Anywhere." I'm sadly surprised that there are STILL people on THIS site that still seem to believe that ALL these people are running for their lives.

What sources?

You just responded to two of my posts almost simultaneously so I'm not sure what you are asking...?

Are you asking for me to provide links to support your statement that, "This post was made since we have seen countless videos and news stories about that. This question was unique. I think it;s clear in the OP ... because you didn't provide any sources there....

or....

Are you asking me to provide links supporting what I said about where the Middle-Eastern People are coming from.
In that case.... here you go...

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: antar

Another thought I just had (and I'm reluctant to ask because it is not my intention to derail your post and admittedly this may deserve it's own thread)... but I have to ask...

Why not ask people living in the towns and villages where the migrants/refugees/etc are establishing themselves to report on what they are seeing and experiencing?

Just a thought.
Two sides to a coin and all that...

This post was made since we have seen countless videos and news stories about that. This question was unique. I think it;s clear in the OP.

It is definitely possible that I missed those posts. I have seen posts providing 'links' to articles that claim to 'portray' what is going on over there.... but I don't recall a specific request for people living over there to explain what they are seeing.

I would appreciate it if you could direct me to some of those (just a friendly request).

Here's 1 from earlier tonight where someone who is in (I think) Sweden, posted what she says is happening in her country ATS link The OP is not specifically asking for that, but it produces some answer. I don't see why someone shouldn't make a thread asking exactly that, for first hand accounts from residents.

I'm not trying to be rude but what part of, "I have seen posts providing 'links' to articles that claim to 'portray' what is going on over there.... but I don't recall a specific request for people living over there to explain what they are seeing do you not understand...?

You just provided a link of some second-hand edited stuff. As the OP was initially searching for (I think) was first hand knowledge and experiences.

They are refugees fleeing their war torn country full stop next line they don't have a phone full stop if they do, they more than likely don't have reception or all the battery is run out full stop period next paragraph those that do have a charged phone and power and a service provider might recharge and have a desire to connect to others the outside world full stop sarcasm that's more than likely the first thing they want to do is log in to ATS and share. Full stop

a reply to: eisegesis

At the same time, haven't you noticed how the term "refugee" is developing a stigma?

I would say that started with the Cuban refugee's during the 80's...But I see your point. Curse you corporate media!

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: eisegesis
They are fleeing for their lives. They can't afford to pay for food or water. They left with nothing but the clothes on their backs but.....

There are plenty of well funded UN run refuges camps they can stop in. In fact they have stopped in these camps. In the main, the women, kids and aged have been left and the young men have "fled". I guess the plan is that these will follow once the virile young men have found a house.

You can complain about the UK policy, but the are taking vulnerable family groups from the camps and not touching these young men. I guess the maths is one man = a family group later down the line.

Besides, as has been oft pointed out, may of the migrants are from areas with relative peace. They are just after a new life in a rich society.

... and how the hell do all these people charge their smartphones?