Defining a "moderate Muslim,"or refuting it.

a reply to: Thetan

I find this thread highly bigoted. To assume that one needs to "define" a moderate muslim like a moderate muslim would somehow behave differently than a moderate anyone else is SUPER intolerant. If you want an answer to this topic, go out and TALK to a bunch of Muslims. Chances are you are going to talk to a moderate Muslim.

The thing is the extremist forms of Islam like Wahhabism. Come from Saudi Arabia, which happens to be our closet ally in the Middle East. Our country will never interfere with Saudi religious intolerance, because they supply the oil and buy the defence contracts. It really is a shady relationship that needs addressing, but all our governments dare not risk the valuable defence contracts that keep so many employed all around the world. We should have utter contempt for the Saudi regime, not cosy up to them

I don't think you can compare what happened in Germany with regard to Jews. As far as I know Jewish people weren't violent to Germans or trying to force their beliefs on to Germans or wishing terrible things to happen to non-Jewish Germans and so it is a completely different situation.

Nor do I believe people wish any harm to muslims (at least not the people I know!). I don't see many posting videos asking for all non-muslims to rise up and kill the muslims, behead the muslims for their beliefs!! I certainly don't wish any harm to my close friends who are muslim! In fact my close friends have the same worries as me and that is in relation to extreme islam. I certainly wouldn't be crying if something terrible happened to the people who are terrorising people in Syria, Iraq and other parts of the world and if something happened to some of the hate preachers in this Country who spew their hatred constantly on our streets but at the same time I wouldn't wish it upon them.

I think what concerns people is the part of Islam where it is OK to deceive or lie to non-muslims. This makes it very hard to trust who is genuine and who isn't. The muslims I meet in every day life at the chemist, at all the local shops, at the hospitals or wherever else should I just take them at face value and believe they are as nice as they appear or are they not genuine? You see I see all these people in every day life when I go to theme parks, seaside, days out, as moderates. However, I do come across some who I would think aren't moderate. Such as the group who I had to ask for directions earlier on in the year in Scarborough. Two of the men in the group stared straight through me as though I hadn't spoken and then both proceeded to spit on the floor. Their wives were wearing Burqhas and looked at the floor as if I hadn't spoken. Eventually one of the group spoke and gave me directions but it was a very hostile environment. I would never treat anyone like that, if someone came up to me to ask for directions I would treat all people equally regardless of their skin colour or culture. Its OK to keep calling everyone who raises concerns about this bigoted or an Islamphobe but then that cuts both ways. What about the muslims who are causing problems for Jewish people in the UK. What about the muslims who are openly hostile to anyone who isn't muslim. No label is ever given to them. friends a reply to: yorkshirelad

the closest definition of a 'moderate muslim' would be a Sufi Muslim



they are concerned with the mystical nature of their faith/ideology/living model rather than the worldly concerns of displaying a herd mind in everyday affairs and performing Jihad/'Soldiering' ....for their doctrine of conformity in outward behavior and forcing every non-Muslim to comply with their world-view


I think I support Sufi Islam but not any other sect of Islam...perhaps because I myself, follow a kind of neo-Shamanic reality/world-view rather than Christianity or Buddhism a'la carte

There are Muslims and there are Khajirites.

There is no moderates.


There are those who follow the Quran and those who follow Hadith.



There are those who read and understand all subtext and there are those who innovate certain passages.



I'm not a moderate.
I don't moderately follow the Quran and don't know any Muslim who does.

But I don't know any Khajirite extremists either.

I do think there needs to be some honest discussions in this Country and I do think people need educating on both sides. I know you are a muslim as I have seen posts before but what you have just said there probably doesn't mean anything to a lot of British people.

My worry is if the concerns of many British people aren't listened to on both side muslim and non-muslim then people are going to start picking sides and that's is when things will get out of hand. This will start in our schools and if what happened yesterday is anything to go by then there are going to be big problems. My son's best friend happens to be a muslim. I'm very close to Ewane he comes out with us as a family and comes to our house a lot. David also goes to his house and for days out. Ewane's family are from Somalia but deliberately put Ewane into a mixed school because they didn't want him to go to an all muslim school. Ewane has been really happy at David's school and has been attending for 4 years. During that time there has never been any problems, children just accept other children for what they are, or at least until yesterday! David came home and I knew straight away there was something wrong. He hasn't really been himself for a few weeks. Anyway he told me yesterday that there are a lot of children at school have started being really mean to Ewane and calling him names. David has been sticking up for him and because of this yesterday a few of the children wouldn't let David play and told him he was a muslim lover and they had been told to keep away from muslims and muslim lovers. I sat down with him for a good hour and said that sticking up for Ewane was the right thing to do. I've always taught David to look behind the outside to the inside in every respect whether it is the overweight child at school, the child who has slight autism, any child who is different and may become the target of bullying.

I've been on to school this morning and have spoken to the headmistress. This is just one situation but it goes to show how deep this is now becoming. Its obviously the parents of these children who are telling them such things and certainly this isn't going to help with integration and assimilation.

I know lots of non-muslim British people who are becoming really hostile and suspicious towards muslims but also at the same time I have friends who are muslim and I know they too are beginning to feel frightened and unsafe. One of my friends isn't muslim but is married to a muslim guy. My friend and her husband have a very open and easy relationship and an understanding with regards to the children. My friend has never converted and her husband agrees that the children can go to mosque if they want to do and when they don't want to do that is fine too. They both want the children to make their own minds up when they are older. However, my friends' children are white and she is starting to feel frightened for them at school in case anyone realises that their father is muslim. So I can see the fear on both sides.

I think there should be some classes where muslims and non-muslims can go and learn about each other and learn about each other's fears and learn about such things as you have posted here. Otherwise, the division is going to become greater and greater if we keep ignoring the fact that there is a problem and all is not as rosey as governments would have us think. a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

a reply to: grainofsand

Agree 100%!

a reply to: anxiouswens

That's sad to hear anxious, but not unsurprising in this current day.

Hopefully it comes good for your son and his friend.

It's all about education at the end of the day.


You can lead a horse to water etc etc...


As far as meetings go, I am quite certain that anyone can visit their local mosque to discuss community matters with the Imam and other Muslims who attend.

Of course that again is leading a horse to water, but I cannot force anyone to actually go through with it.



It's weird you mention a greater divide though, I guess that is subjective to where we live because if anything more and more tolerance is being shown on both sides where I am.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thetan

I find this thread highly bigoted. To assume that one needs to "define" a moderate muslim like a moderate muslim would somehow behave differently than a moderate anyone else is SUPER intolerant. If you want an answer to this topic, go out and TALK to a bunch of Muslims. Chances are you are going to talk to a moderate Muslim.

I'm trying to understand your reasoning behind this. So take this in that light. It is not a criticism. It is an inquiry. Why is this thread bigoted, but the myriad of threads asking similar questions about Christians isn't? At least that's my perception. If you replace the word Muslim with the word Christian in the OP, then it becomes a reasonable question, instead of bigotry. Again, this is a sincere inquiry. What am I missing, Krazyshot?

On topic: I see all religion as eclectic. They all take what they like from their holy books, and discard what doesn't suit them. Whatever they can't discard, they reason away. So a moderate of any religion, is just more eclectic than the fundamentalists in said religion.

a reply to: anxiouswens

Sounds horrible, and from my perspective living in a region of the UK that is 95-99% white/Christian/no-faith folk, I don't want to discover it for myself.
Of course Charlie will say that extremist preachers and the like are not 'true' Muslims etc, but judging from pretty much everything that can be read about tensions in high Muslim populated areas in the UK, I'm quite glad that I would have to drive for hours to find my nearest one.
We fight about who is staying on at pool in the pub in these parts, who ate the last pasty, or "You looking at my bird?" drunken emotions and the like...the religious bull# can stay elsewhere in the UK as far as I'm concerned.
It sounds horrible.

a reply to: grainofsand

It's not so much as saying they're not true Muslims...

But Khajirite is the Islamic/Arabic definition for these extremist groups.

It's not some made up word I've invented to placate apologism, it's a millennia old word used to define those who innovate and cherry pick scripture.


I've no intention of defining who is Muslim or not really, just subjectively answering the OPs question as we all have done so far.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I appreciate the clarity provided in your reply.
I wish decent people of all religions (or lack thereof) the best, and peace in life, but I am glad that Muslim/Non-Muslim religious tension aspect is not part of my daily life. It clearly is for many in the UK.

I'm up North so I don't know if there is a difference. If anything though usually up North people are far more easy going on lots of things. Its not that there have been many changes publically, more what different people are saying behind closed doors and converations I hear when out and about. I know the muslims at a shop near me have had quite a bit of trouble with gangs of youths causing problems but then again I don't know whether that is something that has always gone on and I just happen to be noticing it more. Same with my child at school, obviously children are nasty to each other in all sorts of ways, I was more concerned that the children were saying they had been told by their parents to stay away from muslims and stay away from David because he is friends with a muslim. As I said I did ring his headmistress this morning and she said she wasn't shocked by it because there have been a few similar incidents lately concerning the same children and in other years!!a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy
Are you saying that a "moderate Muslim" is "all cases of not adhering to the entirety of the Koran?" Or, are you saying that the definition is "all cases of not adhering to the entirety of the Koran 'literally,' or both?

There is no moderation to religion, whether Christian, Muslim or whatever. Generally all religions believe that they have the fullness of truth. All religions have become political, cultural or economic systems themselves. All religions have become dependent on the followers themselves for self-preservation. And all this is done in the name of truth, love and brother/sisterhood. This is the horror which has caused nearly every major war in our history. This is the horror which keeps people on their knees psychologically, filled with guilt, unfulfilled prayers, blind faith and the illusion of another and better life after this one. This is the horror which deludes the thinking of an individual, to fly an airliner filled with innocent people into a skyscraper, killing themselves and thousands. And this will be the horror that until we see through it, will destroy the earth

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thetan

I find this thread highly bigoted. To assume that one needs to "define" a moderate muslim like a moderate muslim would somehow behave differently than a moderate anyone else is SUPER intolerant. If you want an answer to this topic, go out and TALK to a bunch of Muslims. Chances are you are going to talk to a moderate Muslim.

I'm trying to understand your reasoning behind this. So take this in that light. It is not a criticism. It is an inquiry. Why is this thread bigoted, but the myriad of threads asking similar questions about Christians isn't? At least that's my perception. If you replace the word Muslim with the word Christian in the OP, then it becomes a reasonable question, instead of bigotry. Again, this is a sincere inquiry. What am I missing, Krazyshot?

I don't think I've ever supported a thread asking to define a moderate Christian, so I think I'd label the same thing as bigoted as well. Then again, maybe I'm a hypocrite. I just can't think of any threads existing where someone asked ATS to define a moderate Christian. So it's up to the reader if they'd believe my words here or not. I imagine that many who think that I hate Christians think I'm hypocritical and others who know better probably think otherwise.

originally posted by: Thetan
President Obama has repeatably used the term "moderate Muslim(s)," when discussing the United State's involvement in the Middle East. The United State's government has never released an official definition of what a "moderate Muslim" is. In this thread you will attempt to define the term "moderate Muslim." Or, if you'd like, you can assert that there is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim," and argue from that viewpoint.

Come now, there are moderate muslims just like moderate Christians.

Two definitions I will put forth:

1) A relatively religiously liberal Muslim, who just like liberal Christians or Jews takes it all with a grain of salt and lives as they wish. I have LOTS of Muslim friends both here and abroad who fit this definition.

2) A true believer whom while believing in the faith is non-violent and not an advocate of violence or extreme action.

Again, most Muslims fit into one of these two categories. I hang out with Muslim friends here in the US. I'm going drinking with moderate ones on Friday for another friend's birthday. I worked in Bangladesh, a very Muslim country, and hung out and worked with countless Muslims.

Most people who think that a majority of Muslims are extremists or dangerous are simply brainwashed or ignorant. That simple. Go out and get some experience with real live Muslims, and you will find that just like "those gays" or some other community once you have them in your community the hate ceases to exist.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thetan

I find this thread highly bigoted. To assume that one needs to "define" a moderate muslim like a moderate muslim would somehow behave differently than a moderate anyone else is SUPER intolerant. If you want an answer to this topic, go out and TALK to a bunch of Muslims. Chances are you are going to talk to a moderate Muslim.

I'm trying to understand your reasoning behind this. So take this in that light. It is not a criticism. It is an inquiry. Why is this thread bigoted, but the myriad of threads asking similar questions about Christians isn't? At least that's my perception. If you replace the word Muslim with the word Christian in the OP, then it becomes a reasonable question, instead of bigotry. Again, this is a sincere inquiry. What am I missing, Krazyshot?

I don't think I've ever supported a thread asking to define a moderate Christian, so I think I'd label the same thing as bigoted as well. Then again, maybe I'm a hypocrite. I just can't think of any threads existing where someone asked ATS to define a moderate Christian. So it's up to the reader if they'd believe my words here or not. I imagine that many who think that I hate Christians think I'm hypocritical and others who know better probably think otherwise.

I don't think you're a hypocrite. You just had me curious. Lately, I have been noticing the PC when it comes to Islam, as opposed to Christianity, and honestly, it disappoints me. Not at you, but in general. Islam is no better than the other two. And I refuse to bow to the PC regarding it.

In other news. I'd like to know why your reply didn't show up in my "thread replies". I keep wondering how many other replies I'm missing.

It's very simple ... a moderate Muslim doesn’t want to behead you, a moderate Muslim wants a radical Muslim to behead you FOR him.

a reply to: Revolution9

OK looking at what you have replied:

Prostitution - now are you talking about the Yazidi women taken by muslim bonkers for prostitution and put into brothels to stem sexual urges of the male ISIS fighters? I hear they don't even get paid so they are sex slaves.

Prostitution seems OK to muslims, they even turn them into sex slaves with no pay and no chance of the men getting stoned or crucified for adultery. Funny how bent sharia can become when you want to bend it for yourself.

Your 'torment' point about the goyim probably needs to be addressed to the Jewish financiers and bankers. Again a desert religion on which Islam is founded. Also you might notice that Saudi Arabia is one of the countries that loves to finance a wart protect its king - even taking part in one itself in Yemem. In fact most muslim countries buy arms from the west. Most Jihadists are using western made weapons - Pot/kettle I would wonder?

I don't know about slaughtering other States assets for sports so can't comment on that - which sport did you have in mind and what about slaughtering people who won't convert? Might not be for 'sport', but I bet a few just love the blood lust and the pious cause 'in the name of whoever/whatever god is one of the best reasons to get away with it. After all if a muslim kills a non-believer of apostate etc etc

You clearly know zilch about the UK and our history and exploitation of child workers which we have stamped out. However a little trip around many muslim countries sees the women working and the men in the cafes sitting around all day n to something you see so much of in the west except in muslim conclaves.

We are so cool we provide any foreigner with no money and kids free housing, education, medical care and money, feel like naming one muslim country that does that - especially for non muslims? Go on I dare ya.

You want to talk about the british establishment - how about the muslim grooming of our kids for grubby underage sex that went on in Rotherham etc? Believe you me the british public's attention is still on this but the establishment, with the help of the media and we all know who controls that, are trying to get this matter sorted out because its disgusting and leaves those guilty in government open to blackmail - However if blackmail gets your country aid etc its not only the media and bent politicians who work to keep this one on the back burner. Thought you would have worked that out.

Didn't some muslim countries try to gas people they didn't want - Iraq etc Any government will use any means to stay in power and that includes chemical weapons on their own - they will even experiment although in the West today it would be far harder to get away with it fortunately and not get sued at the very least?


I agree with you the West is pretty ghastly on many things but at least here if you complain and try to expose it you don't get crucified!- Our media has already been castrated but the public are fighting back on social media so all is not lost in the West just yet - there are decent people around still.

I would mention that you seem to be missing the quiet uprising in Western countries against the bankers and bent governments run by rothschild's zionist cartel - its gathering steam every second so the majority of people here are not so bent or hypocritical as you clearly think. They just don't have the money the royals and their elitist buddies have to protect themselves with and weren't bent enough to obtain that kind of wealth in the first place.

But I ask you to go back to the idea that muslims coming here want sharia and all its nonsense - would you give it to them because things are not quite right in the Western countries without it?