No wonder the folks in L.A were freaking out - check out this amazing pic!!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bluesma
Trident launches?

Yes.

Assuming you're right, how does that support your position that this is something new?

It seems to me, (and I know I might be wrong, that is why I ASKED, before being badgered with stupid objections to defend my question so rigorously!)
that our military used to have a different approach in the past, preferring, when possible, to keep the masses from seeing their weaponry research, development and testing.
The more visible an impact it had, the more they would try to keep it's testing in areas more remote, to limit the observations and speculations.

It does seem to me rather recent that testing has gotten such a wide audience. I am aware it could be just a product of having information more accessable. (it happened as much but we didn't hear about it)

On the other hand, I have been here more than 20 years, and observing what reaches this far and what doesn't, there is a pattern I see and am pointing out here.

a reply to: Bluesma

On the other hand, I have been here more than 20 years, and observing what reaches this far and what doesn't, there is a pattern I see and am pointing out here.

I've been here a lot more than 20 years and the only pattern I've seen is that nonsense and ignorance travel wider and faster.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bluesma

On the other hand, I have been here more than 20 years, and observing what reaches this far and what doesn't, there is a pattern I see and am pointing out here.

I've been here a lot more than 20 years and the only pattern I've seen is that nonsense and ignorance travel wider and faster.

I don't know where "here" is for you?
Are you far away from the USA too?

Then you have seen the exact same pattern I am pointing out here!
You agreed with me on that? Why hassle me so much then?

You think you and I are the only ones who noticed this pattern?
You really think the US military and government wouldn't notice that and USE it to vehicle intended impressions as far as possible?

a reply to: Bluesma

You really think the US military and government wouldn't notice that and USE it to vehicle intended impressions as far as possible?

What impression? That we have SLBMs? I think that's not a secret to our "enemies" or anyone else.
I grew up "duck and covering" because of ICBMs.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bluesma

What impression? That we have SLBMs? I think that's not a secret to our "enemies" or anyone else.
I grew up "duck and covering" because of ICBMs.

Okay, I am getting the impression that you just didn't read carefully my first post in this thread, and that is what lead you off in another direction.

My question was referring to using social media (citizen media) to spread intended impressions and attitudes to other parts of the world, to influence the masses internationally.


I can guarantee that most of the people in rural areas of far away countries had (previously) no idea what SLBM's are, much less who does and doesn't have them. That is recent for most of them (within the last three days), and was spurred by the sensationalist UFO headlines, followed a few days later by the correction. In speaking up to people who are talking about the mass UFO sighting in California, to explain what it really was, I play my part in furthering knowledge of the american might and aggressive readiness for conflict.

JUst having your enemies know about your weapons does not effect the attitudes of the masses in those enemies countries.... the ones who vote.

a reply to: Bluesma

I can guarantee that most of the people in rural areas of far away countries had (previously) no idea what SLBM's are, much less who does and doesn't have them.

And how do you think this "new" information will change the way they live their lives?

In speaking up to people who are talking about the mass UFO sighting in California, to explain what it really was, I play my part in furthering knowledge of the american might and is aggressive readiness for conflict.

Ah. I see where you are coming from now.

And tell me, did you "play your part" by also explaining that Russia also has SLBMs and is aggressive and ready for conflict?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bluesma

And how do you think this "new" information will change the way they live their lives?

I think it strikes in them a general sense that america has some powerful developments in weaponry, and is actively flexing their muscles, and are worthy of being watched and respected.

That image has been waning for a while, seeing the US as "resting on their laurels". On the contrary, in the last five years or so, they have had their attention pulled to Russia, seeing them as suddenly opening their gates and stepping into a more active and aggressive place in the world, a country to watch and respect it's force.

These attitudes can effect voters; who they elect, and who they feel their country should be allied with, or against.

And tell me, did you play your part by also explaining that Russia also has SLBMs and aggressive and ready for conflict?

If they show interest in that question, yes. But like I said, they are kind of already highly aware of Russia.
The Bulava testing had a big impact on the mass consciousness attitudes towards Russia, as do their recent activities in the Middle East. America is playing catch up, I think.

a reply to: Bluesma

America is playing catch up, I think.

That would be a matter of opinion at your level and mine.

a reply to: Bluesma

You say you live in France, so have you explained that France has SLBMs too?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Bluesma

You say you live in France, so have you explained that France has SLBMs too?

I don't really feel any "duty" to do anything.
If there is a conversation about the famous "mass UFO sighting" going on in my presence,
I will speak up and point out what it really was.
(and go through the long objections and challenges that come back to me in response, for disturbing their view )

If, at the end of that ten minute stupid debate, they are interested in hearing who else has these missiles,
I will mention it, I guess.
Up to now, no one around me has shown any interest. And since interacting even on the single event that has captured their interest is so damned time and energy consuming (like here) I don't know if I will feel like going any further.

My sentence about "playing my part" was not an admission of purposeful effort to help spread propaganda,
It was within my original hypothesis, that we all might be playing a part unintentionally through debating and arguing these events and issues- no matter what side we're on.

I'm loving the arguments against phage and Zaphod because if you are going to be wrong you may as well be wrong to those who know what's going on.

There is a reason why tests are conducted in the desert; discretion and privacy. Tonopah, Groom lake...They have been no go zones for decades and for good reason.

a reply to: tommyjo

Jim Oberg plotted them out at the following link.

www.abovetopsecret.com…

And right below that Phage pointed out the date was wrong. But thanks for the ton of data about Treaties and Agreements. Apparently broken here, too. Read it…

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But I get the illusion of high moral ground proponents of US doctrine want to preserve, for disinformation sake.

Is this the main stream media or an alternative to it?

a reply to: TheScale

what they see during a test isn't really whats important.

Yes it is. Especially when you trick defenses into switching on and track without warning.

Thats how counter measures are developed. By poking your enemy with a stick when he least expects it.

a reply to: intrptr

And if you read more than one "See, I was right" post you'd see the date was for the year, not the day.

Yes there's an ongoing NOTAM, it's an MOA. There are ongoing NOTAMs for all MOAs. This warning gave specific dates that activity would be occurring.

And what countermeasures do you think there are for nuclear missiles? You don't "poke your enemy with a stick" if nuclear weapons are involved.

We've been able to test nuclear explosions away from the public eye, repeatedly. And we're supposed to believe that THIS, they had no choice but to do it within sight of a highly populated area?
It couldn't be done during the day, when it would be less visible, or during the middle of the night, when everyone was asleep?

LAX officials act as if the warning they got was not habitual - they hadn't ever recieved such an alert before. Somehow, the testing done up to now didn't call for that.

John Daniels, a public affairs officer for the Navy’s Strategic Systems Programs declared:

The launch, moments after the sun set, created a reflection that made the missile appear brighter, more difficult to discern and visible for far longer than it would have been during the day or at night,

Military officials were unaware beforehand that the launch would offer up such eerie and extended viewing, Daniels said. Had they known, they probably would have prepared a statement to release to the media immediately after the launch, he said.

source LA times

So I guess it's just "OOOPs! Our bad! We didn't calculate the conditions properly, and it took us a long time to realize the effects from the test."

With all the growing threats from Russia and China, I doubt it was just silly bumbling men that forgot to consider the visibility conditions and possible reactions from the public.
Allow me to remain sceptical. The opposing opinions and disgruntlement with my assertion are noted and acknowledged.

a reply to: Bluesma

Missiles are tested within public view all the time. There have been some amazing ones over the years from Vandenberg AFB. So they didn't take into account the effects of the sunset on the trail. So what. Russia and China had the telemetry frequencies, they didn't need to see it to know what it was doing. They knew exactly where it was, and where it was going the entire flight. They just didn't know exactly when it would occur.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: tommyjo

Jim Oberg plotted them out at the following link.

www.abovetopsecret.com…

And right below that Phage pointed out the date was wrong. But thanks for the ton of data about Treaties and Agreements. Apparently broken here, too. Read it…

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But I get the illusion of high moral ground proponents of US doctrine want to preserve, for disinformation sake.

Is this the main stream media or an alternative to it?

No the date wasn't wrong. You need to learn to read a thread and also learn to read the links and info that they contain.
Phage made an error in thinking that the date was wrong. Phage later realised that. Jim Oberg reposted and highlighted that
it was November 2015.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There was nothing wrong with the date on the US Notices to Mariners. Phage interpreted it as "Nov 15"(November 15th) rather than November 2015

363/15(18,21,81).
EASTERN NORTH PACIFIC.
CALIFORNIA.
HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS 071600Z TO 080300Z AND
091600Z TO 100300Z NOV IN AREAS:
A. BOUND BY
32-09N 119-30W, 32-36N 119-30W,
32-27N 117-34W, 32-00N 117-34W.
B. BETWEEN 32-18N 32-36N AND 122-30W 120-48W.
C. BETWEEN 32-12N 32-54N AND 131-00W 127-12W.
D. BOUND BY
29-42N 159-12W, 30-42N 159-24W,
31-54N 152-00W, 30-54N 151-42W.
E. BOUND BY
12-30N 151-00E, 13-30N 150-00E,
17-15N 157-30E, 16-15N 158-30E.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 100400Z NOV 15.

msi.nga.mil...

And no the treaties weren't broken. Learn to read a thread and the info. If you had done then we wouldn't be having this conversation. You do realise that the launch notification refers to ICBM/SLBM. The treaties are signed by and ratified between the then Soviet Union and the US and later the Russian Federation and the US. What part of Inter Continental Ballistic Missile and Submarine Ballistic Missile belonging to Russia and US don't you get?

Plasma propulsion engine
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: tommyjo

What part of Inter Continental Ballistic Missile and Submarine Ballistic Missile belonging to Russia and US don't you get?

The part where I don't trust anything the US government says anymore. What part of that don't you get?

You say US honors missile treaties, the whole missile game is to hide boomers under the ocean and lay there in case they need to suddenly destroy the world. You think thats sane, then I think you are insane.

Nuclear weapons, and the people who design make and employ them are insane.

People who defend that whole Paradigm are absolutely bonkers.

a reply to: EA006

The project for the new American century mentions the upgrade to the nuclear deterrent.
Along with the Pearl Harbor type "incident" and the dramatic rise of the military budget, they're implementing the plan pretty well it seems.

Except for no increase in their budget?

Always was a misinformed plan for a "new" American century.