University of Missouri proves racial hypocrisy on Universities

a reply to: FraggleRock

Shoving yourself into another person? You mean the photographer? I don't think he meant to, but he was getting up in their faces, that's for certain.

How was free press being "attacked" again? Because they held their hands up? LOL

Let's look again at what you're saying here. You're reacting to a video of college kids reacting rudely.

There was what ... a group of 10-15 there?

So, what you're saying is that, based on that, you're judging that no one at the university who was protesting inaction on racial harassment and other issues, has any credibility?

Is that what you're saying?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: stevieray

Which part of the repeatedly listed episodes do you not find racially motivated or hateful?

The swastika? People screaming racial epithets at other people?

Are you saying those are okay with you?

Oh, doggone it.

I shoulda known that by asking your for proof......I would end up with racism being "OK by me" !!

Dammit, I hate it when I do that !

a reply to: Gryphon66

Both actually.

I don't approve of racism, but I fail to see how it has proven that there is a climate of systemic racism based on the incidents listed, maybe if there actually was one, I could get behind this more.

And the incidents that could be proven/perpetrators caught were very quickly and harshly dealt with, so I don't see how "nothing" was done.

The list of demands was patently ridiculous and all out of proportion to what actually happened. You want him to apologize for White Privilege? OK, as soon as you apologize for being black ... I mean, it amounts to the same thing. Apologize for how you were born.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes, apparently it all started because he didn't issue a Ferguson statement. I'm not really sure why he needed to as the incident didn't happen in Columbia and didn't involve any of his students, faculty or staff.

At that point, the campus then became a place of "systemic racism." Similar to what is happening at Yale.

The timeline has been presented repeatedly. I know you have different feelings about what happened in Ferguson than some.

Don't you think you're understating the students' complaints just a bit? I mean, even for you.

No one has argued that single event proved anything. Can you quote that from somewhere?

What about the students expressing their rights of assembly and freedom of speech do you disagree with exactly?

How would you like to have seen the protests handled? Broken up with tear gas? Should the football team have been forced to play at gunpoint?

The students exercised their rights. The President (who I would STILL wager knows more about the situation than either you or me) acknowledged what they were saying and resigned.

What's the continuing issue for you?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Both actually.

I don't approve of racism, but I fail to see how it has proven that there is a climate of systemic racism based on the incidents listed, maybe if there actually was one, I could get behind this more.

And the incidents that could be proven/perpetrators caught were very quickly and harshly dealt with, so I don't see how "nothing" was done.

The list of demands was patently ridiculous and all out of proportion to what actually happened. You want him to apologize for White Privilege? OK, as soon as you apologize for being black ... I mean, it amounts to the same thing. Apologize for how you were born.

The President, the Chancellor, the Faculty, the Head Coach have all acknowledged there were problems and that the students had viable claims regarding racism.

You are second-guessing all those people, and offering your opinion about what the kids asked for.

I think you're actually getting closer to some honesty when you compare White Privilege to Being Black ... is that the same thing here?

Are you claiming that the African American students have Black Privilege?

How is it you know so much more about the situation than the people who are there, on campus, and have been?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Can you provide proof of systemic racism? I mean throughout the entire system, not just isolated incidents related more to the student body level. Systemic means all the way up.

And the President was on the chopping block before this incident, it just gave them a convenient excuse to get rid of him. That's according to the Columbia paper reporter who has been covering this. This was just a cover.

As for the football players, they were basically extorting the University over the BYU game. If they forfeit, the school would have to pay out $1 million because of the nature of the game. You could call that extortion and that brings up legal issues because every one of them who signed a scholarship LOI made certain legal agreements to the school.

a reply to: stevieray
Perhaps you'll weigh in on my actual question then.

Another poster questioned the credibility of the entire matter ... the reports over several months, etc. ... based on the events on the video, which I have said, in the post you're chiming in on, was undeniably rude.

So ... does the actions of these dozen or so students destroy the credibility of what has been going on for months?

That's the question I asked; can you answer it?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Both actually.

I don't approve of racism, but I fail to see how it has proven that there is a climate of systemic racism based on the incidents listed, maybe if there actually was one, I could get behind this more.

And the incidents that could be proven/perpetrators caught were very quickly and harshly dealt with, so I don't see how "nothing" was done.

The list of demands was patently ridiculous and all out of proportion to what actually happened. You want him to apologize for White Privilege? OK, as soon as you apologize for being black ... I mean, it amounts to the same thing. Apologize for how you were born.

The President, the Chancellor, the Faculty, the Head Coach have all acknowledged there were problems and that the students had viable claims regarding racism.

You are second-guessing all those people, and offering your opinion about what the kids asked for.

I think you're actually getting closer to some honesty when you compare White Privilege to Being Black ... is that the same thing here?

Are you claiming that the African American students have Black Privilege?

How is it you know so much more about the situation than the people who are there, on campus, and have been?

Nobody at ATS knows the claims are false. Nobody at ATS knows the claims are true.

That's what some clear-headed folks say "gee, evidence would be nice".

Swearing that it can't be true, or that it must be true....are both foolish.

Nothing is true or false because of who said it. Well, for some maybe. Not for us who like to distinguish lies from truth.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I'm saying someone can't help how they were born, but to demand someone apologize for White Privilege? Well, I might as well demand you apologize for being gay. How does that make you feel?

But can you prove the university itself did anything to demand that black people apologize for being black?

a reply to: stevieray

Good - we are making small headway here. You don't deny that racism exists. You don't deny that racism happened on this campus?

The students say that they have been trying to get this president to do something about the racism for a while, but he did nothing. He admits that racism is rampant on campus and he admits to doing nothing. The students want someone in charge who will DO SOMETHING. Since he won't, they want someone in charge who will. How does that not make sense?

Look, if his statement on Friday was something like, "I didn't know about any instances of racism on campus until last month and I plan on doing the following things to deal with it, if I had known about it earlier I would have done something earlier..." I might have given him the benefit of the doubt. But that's not what he said. He said he was aware of the problems being "long-standing and systemic", and he admits doing nothing about it. There is really no way he deserves to stay after admitting that.

If you had an employee that other employees complained wasn't doing his job, and you met with that employee and he admitted to not doing his job, would you fire him? If you are worth your salt as an employer, damn right you would.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Can you provide proof of systemic racism? I mean throughout the entire system, not just isolated incidents related more to the student body level. Systemic means all the way up.

And the President was on the chopping block before this incident, it just gave them a convenient excuse to get rid of him. That's according to the Columbia paper reporter who has been covering this. This was just a cover.

As for the football players, they were basically extorting the University over the BYU game. If they forfeit, the school would have to pay out $1 million because of the nature of the game. You could call that extortion and that brings up legal issues because every one of them who signed a scholarship LOI made certain legal agreements to the school.

I've offered the testimony of people on the campus. Students, administrators, faculty, the Head Coach and the President.

Do you have any evidence that these claims are falsified? Because multiple witnesses on the scene have attested to them.

At this point, it seems you need to provide some evidence of your own not just conjecture.

As far as the football players choosing not to act, (you really need to look up what extortion actually means), what would you have happen? Should the players have been coerced to play? How would you have done that?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: stevieray

Sweet like pie? You enjoy seeing people acting badly?

Doesn't shock me. You seem to be the type.

Perhaps you'll weigh in on my actual question then.

Another poster questioned the credibility of the entire matter ... the reports over several months, etc. ... based on the events on the video, which I have said, in the post you're chiming in on, was undeniably rude.

So ... does the actions of these dozen or so students destroy the credibility of what has been going on for months?

That's the question I asked; can you answer it?

I contrasted your dismissiveness for the complaints against the student behavior, with proof on video.....with your belief that no proof is needed for the various racism myths.

Seems on topic, not sure why it was deleted.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Both actually.

I don't approve of racism, but I fail to see how it has proven that there is a climate of systemic racism based on the incidents listed, maybe if there actually was one, I could get behind this more.

And the incidents that could be proven/perpetrators caught were very quickly and harshly dealt with, so I don't see how "nothing" was done.

The list of demands was patently ridiculous and all out of proportion to what actually happened. You want him to apologize for White Privilege? OK, as soon as you apologize for being black ... I mean, it amounts to the same thing. Apologize for how you were born.

The President, the Chancellor, the Faculty, the Head Coach have all acknowledged there were problems and that the students had viable claims regarding racism.

You are second-guessing all those people, and offering your opinion about what the kids asked for.

I think you're actually getting closer to some honesty when you compare White Privilege to Being Black ... is that the same thing here?

Are you claiming that the African American students have Black Privilege?

How is it you know so much more about the situation than the people who are there, on campus, and have been?

Nobody at ATS knows the claims are false. Nobody at ATS knows the claims are true.

That's what some clear-headed folks say "gee, evidence would be nice".

Swearing that it can't be true, or that it must be true....are both foolish.

Nothing is true or false because of who said it. Well, for some maybe. Not for us who like to distinguish lies from truth.

Yep, read back. Before the President and Chancellor resigned, I said repeatedly we should wait for what an investigation would show. Aw, you called me "clear-headed" ... that's nice.

a reply to: kaylaluv

What was he supposed to have done?!

The students who were caught were dealt with, expelled. Everyone has to take sensitivity training. And the ones who yelled out of the truck window are impossible to find ... the guys yelled at can't remember relevant details like license plates that would help find them.

So what do you do? Hiring more blacks won't change that. Finding more black students in a state without many black people where the two major cities that have most of the black population is stuck in crappy school districts and then further divided between other major schools is going to be difficult unless you lower your standards to let them in, and then you get black students who are not prepared and able to handle the challenge of college and they leave without a degree and still saddled with debt. How is that fair to them?

Oh, and adding black studies isn't going to fix anything either.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: stevieray

Good - we are making small headway here. You don't deny that racism exists. You don't deny that racism happened on this campus?

The students say that they have been trying to get this president to do something about the racism for a while, but he did nothing. He admits that racism is rampant on campus and he admits to doing nothing. The students want someone in charge who will DO SOMETHING. Since he won't, they want someone in charge who will. How does that not make sense?

Look, if his statement on Friday was something like, "I didn't know about any instances of racism on campus until last month and I plan on doing the following things to deal with it, if I had known about it earlier I would have done something earlier..." I might have given him the benefit of the doubt. But that's not what he said. He said he was aware of the problems being "long-standing and systemic", and he admits doing nothing about it. There is really no way he deserves to stay after admitting that.

If you had an employee that other employees complained wasn't doing his job, and you met with that employee and he admitted to not doing his job, would you fire him? If you are worth your salt as an employer, damn right you would.

Racism is going to exist in general, because every culture will contain somebody that doesn't like another culture for prejudiced reasons.

To claim that racism HAPPENED, and needs some punishment, you need to cite what happened with some kind of evidence.

If you choose to believe whatever someone says because it aligns with your world view, that's your problem. You really shouldn't, it doesn't look good for you.

There can be 101 hidden reasons and motivations for people to repeat a totally unproven story, even the president.

I prefer to see the proof before I believe it. Those who don't, that's their problem.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I'm saying someone can't help how they were born, but to demand someone apologize for White Privilege? Well, I might as well demand you apologize for being gay. How does that make you feel?

But can you prove the university itself did anything to demand that black people apologize for being black?

Look, I'm not responsible for what the kids asked for. And we could spend weeks arguing about "white privilege."

You won't find me anywhere stating that the "list of demands" was all reasonable and logical, because to me, that's a minor point.

Apparently, their number one "demand" was that the President resign which he did within a few hours. You don't have any more information about why he did that than anyone else does, so, until more evidence is available, I guess we take the man at his word.

I'm totally lost with this comment of yours: "But can you prove the university itself did anything to demand that black people apologize for being black?"

No, to my knowledge, no one was asked to apologize for being Black. Again, what's the point of your comment?