Very simple argument against abortion

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I'm a philosophy major, I do know how. My argument is a deductive argument. www.iep.utm.edu... It is a deductive argument because it's conclusion follows necessarily from the premises, irrespective of if the premises are true.





I would like to make a critique on my argument however. My "exception," actually, isn't an exception. I was wrong in that regard.

a reply to: Annee
My argument is an argument and you haven't given an argument.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I'm a philosophy major, I do know how. My argument is a deductive argument. www.iep.utm.edu... It is a deductive argument because it's conclusion follows necessarily from the premises, irrespective of if the premises are true.

Here is your argument again:

All intentional killing of innocent human beings is wrong.
Abortion is the intentional killing of an innocent human being.
Therefore, abortion is wrong.

"All intentional killing of innocent human beings is wrong." ----Opinion
"Abortion is the intentional killing of an innocent human being." ----can be argued as a fact or opinion depending on how words are defined
"abortion is wrong." -----Opinion

As you can see at least 2 of your 3 statements (and maybe even all three of them) are opinions. It is impossible for your argument to be deductive. If you are a philosophy major, then you need to go retake introduction to logic again. I WASN'T a philosophy major and I can tell the difference between an opinion and fact or a deductive argument and an inductive argument.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee
My argument is an argument and you haven't given an argument.

I've countered your opinion.

I realize you don't like my counter position - - - but, it is indeed a counter to your "argument".

a reply to: Annee
I never said it was my opinion and I never said I didn't like yours. I gave an argument. You have not given an argument.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I've already told you what a deductive argument was and provided you with an academic link to verify my assertion. If you've comprehended the information that iv given you and you still don't understand, then there's nothing more i can do for you.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I've already told you what a deductive argument was and provided you with an academic link to verify my assertion. If you've comprehended the information that iv given you and you still don't understand, then there's nothing more i can do for you.

I DO understand. I understand it COMPLETELY. You are apparently not understanding how your argument doesn't live up to the academic definition that you provided. Which is what I'm trying to explain to you.

For example, prove DEFINITELY that this premise of yours is always true (a criteria that must be met for a deductive argument): "All intentional killing of innocent human beings is wrong." It's impossible. There are people all over the world that have personal exceptions to this rule, and there is no way to argue that they are wrong either. Because again it is an opinion.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
That is what you aren't understanding. For it to be a deductive argument, the premises don't have to be true. The conclusion just has to flow necessarily from the premises.

a reply to: Thetan

No the point you are missing is that the premises aren't true or false; they CAN'T be true or false. They just are, because they are opinions. I cannot assume that "All intentional killing of innocent human beings is wrong," is true, because such a statement can NEVER be true. It can never be false either. The very fact that they are opinions introduces probability into the mix, which is when a deductive argument becomes inductive.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee
I never said it was my opinion and I never said I didn't like yours. I gave an argument. You have not given an argument.

You did not give an argument - - other then Morality - - which is an opinion.

I stated my Morality (opinion) is to support and care for the living.

You rejected my argument (opinion) of over population being irresponsible breeding. Abortion can and does correct irresponsible breeding.

(note: just for clarity I added "irresponsible breeding" to be more detailed in my position)

a reply to: Krazysh0t
If premises are coherent, then they are either completely true, or they are not.

web.stanford.edu...

a reply to: Annee
You aren't understanding the difference between an "argument" and an "assertion."

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee
You aren't understanding the difference between an "argument" and an "assertion."

You are asserting an opinion.

Here's a fact. Probably the only one in this discussion.

Abortion can and does correct irresponsible breeding.

a reply to: Thetan

fact: pregnancy poses risks to women, and could cause death in some cases.
fact: having mulitple pregnancies spaced closely together causes long term medical problems.
fact: no birth control method, outside of abstinence, is 100% effective.

my opinions based on these facts:
1. we'll never have abortion free medical care, not without sacrificing the lives of some women.
2. birth control and family planning is a necessary component of a women's healthcare.
and
3. since women most of the time are reacting to perceived threats to their health, their financial security, their careers, their way of life, abortion is no more murder than the war hawks during the runup to the iraq war with their frenzied claims of wmd's threatening our life, health, financial security, careers, or way of life and bringing us into a way and dropping bombs on babies, small children, mothers, fathers, grandmother, and grandfathers.....

at least the threats that the women sees are probably much more real to her than the imaginary wmd's were, and the pain and suffering caused really much less!

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t
If premises are coherent, then they are either completely true, or they are not.

web.stanford.edu...

Opinion
First definition:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

You cannot just arbitrarily say that an opinion is true just because you arbitrarily declared the argument you attached it to a deductive argument.

Oh one more definition since you linked a link on the law of Excluded Middle (which talks about a statement being unable to be true or false):
Statement (logic)

In logic, a statement is either (a) a meaningful declarative sentence that is either true or false, or (b) that which a true or false declarative sentence asserts. In the latter case, a statement is distinct from a sentence in that a sentence is only one formulation of a statement, whereas there may be many other formulations expressing the same statement.

In other words, a logical statement CANNOT be an opinion.

a reply to: Annee

Abortion can and does correct irresponsible breeding.

Wow,just wow... no idea which planet you came from

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm only going to say this one more time. The flaw in my OP was that I named an "exception," that was not an exception. Omit just the word and concept of "exception," from my OP and everything else still stands exactly as it did. My falsely labeled "exception," is actually just a case where abortion isn't ethically wrong, it isn't ethically wrong in this case because the death of the fetus is foreseen, but not the intent. This notion directly ties into the argument.

My argument is a deductive argument because, and only because, the conclusion of my argument follows NECESSARILY from the premises. It's that simple.

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: Annee

Abortion can and does correct irresponsible breeding.

Wow,just wow... no idea which planet you came from

Earth, the over populated one. The one that's dying. The one we have to find a way to get off someday if the human race wants to continue.

The Real World too much for you?

a reply to: Thetan

No your argument isn't a deductive argument because you cannot build a logical statement with an opinion, let alone an entire argument. That is a fact that you keep ignoring.

Therefore, I stand by my reasoning that I've already provided to you about abortion and how you've too narrowly defined the scope of the premises to declare it immoral. I also feel that further elucidation of my points to you is unnecessary based on the fact that you cannot tell the difference between an opinion and a logical statement.

a reply to: Annee

No, the issue i have people playing Gods cause they have a set of thumbs and a weird imagination