Confessions of a church-going atheist

a reply to: Tenebris

You dont need to believe in God or the bible if you can preach love.. Thats the message of Jesus Christ.. The church is open to anyone

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: Tenebris

You dont need to believe in God or the bible if you can preach love.. Thats the message of Jesus Christ.. The church is open to anyone

OK, back in the early 2000's i split with the wife because of her infidelity, i met another woman who had split from her husband because of his infidelity. Could we marry in a church? nope, dont tell me the church is open to anyone. Just saying

Edit: we did marry, in a registry office, thanks God, Jesus and the Church!!!

CbG

a reply to: NthOther

There is no requirement for the organ player to be a theist. The requirement is for the organ player to play the organ. I'm sure the church would be glad to have the opportunity to influence an atheist anyway. Not all Christians are that closed-minded.

a reply to: NthOther

If im in a Christian atmosphere and have a exegetical bible study in a Church with a priest, im a atheist, not even agnostic. Am i using their knowledge, or am i gaining information to pass on to a Atheist community.

Didnt Jesus say exactly these words: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work"

When im in a Synagogue or Mosque talking to a Imam or a Rabbi about theology, research, history, physics, chemistry, history.. Am i taking advantage of their teachings, or am i trying to learn the very essence of the word.. Love..

The Atheist goes by these rules: Human rights

A christian goes by the ten commandments: Ten commandments

Dont label things you dont understand to its core, because of stereotypes based on lack of knowledge.

a reply to: Tenebris

There's absolutely nothing wrong with sharing your love for music in any institution. Anyone who's lived for at least 20 years can attest to the beneficial qualities music brings into our lives and to share that is never a bad thing.

For me, I would be worried about supposed eventual comments from church-goers giving credit to a god for your talents after the service ended as sooner or later, I wouldn't be able to refrain from informing them of my lack of belief. This could be rather awkward for me.

Embrace your opportunity though and I hope it brings you joy and fulfillment!

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

So lets say.. You married in church, you made a promise, in church, with these exact words:

I, ____, take you, ____, to be my (husband/wife). I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honour you all the days of my life. :[4] I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part. The priest will then say aloud "You have declared your consent before the Church. May the Lord in his goodness strengthen your consent and fill you both with his blessings. What God has joined, men must not divide. Amen.

You broke it, no one else.. Its not about the Church anymore its about you..

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: NthOther

The Atheist goes by these rules: Human rights

A christian goes by the ten commandments: Ten commandments

Dont label things you dont understand to its core, because of stereotypes based on lack of knowledge.

OH OK, why did the Vicker / Priest / Imam / Whatever, turn us away because of our PARTNERS infidelity? i still can not get my head around this. We, my 2nd wife and I, did not cause the breakdown of our first relationships (may have contributed but not by screwing around). Why are we considered scumbags by the "church", not clean enough to marry within their bricks and mortar? serious question?

a reply to: NthOther

As a musician, I think some of these misconceptions come from not knowing musicians. In many societies, from India to here in the US, musicians tend to experience playing music itself as a type of religion, and thereby many tend to not really get as dogmatic or closed as some typical church goers. In my time I've know agnostics who have been great church choir directors. Many people who are ambiguous about Jesus but maybe believe in the spirituality in all religions are great church musicians. There are also many great gospel musicians who are devout down the line. But the world of music is the world of music, and experiencing the ecstasy of playing music makes many of the dogmatic theories of different religions silly. But sharing in love and celebration to an audience remains real, and realer than real, realer than the words in a book.

So churches will always have to deal with the world of musicians, in order to have good music. This is also why conservative extremists like the Taliban want to ban music, because it tends to free people from dogma, sometimes. On the other end the open minded Muslim Sufis sing and chant all the time.

So, this isn't an isolated case. Many musicians and churches don't necessarily go for all the dogma of the church they play at. How could they? Music is universal.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

You did marry, and you did take a vow.. And you broke that..

Marriages in the West were originally contracts between the families of two partners, with the Catholic Church and the state staying out of it. In 1215, the Catholic Church decreed that partners had to publicly post banns, or notices of an impending marriage in a local parish, to cut down on the frequency of invalid marriages (the Church eliminated that requirement in the 1980s). Still, until the 1500s, the Church accepted a couple's word that they had exchanged marriage vows, with no witnesses or corroborating evidence needed.

Its your victorian ideals, placed on a religious atmosphere thats the issue.

You want someone else to break their vows, just because you broke yours.. Church is open to anyone, but this is not about the church its about your own crusade..

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: corblimeyguvnor


Its your victorian ideals, placed on a religious atmosphere thats the issue.

Yes, i did break my vows purely because i couldn't live with someone that screwed around, how about i keep my vows and let her F**k her boyfriends when i was there, giving her HAIL MARY's when he left!

Victorian? NO, Cuckhold .... F**K NO, human ....... yes. Church and You understand that? F**K NO

What would you do i ask? are you promoting Bigamy, Multi Partner Relationships? as it would appear i broke my vows for no reason? Really?

Perhaps you have a perversion, i don't know. Cheat On Me and i'm out, simples (I did give her a chance btw, i didn't walk the FIRST time, yes, second time i walked)

Now, mr / mrs high and mighty, please don't preach to this educated, living in the 21st Century person, about sh*t that apparently happened over 2000 years ago, there were "GODS" before Christianity. I'm pretty sure there will be gods after Christianity, if the Human Race lives long enough for that.

double standards pahhhhhh

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: NthOther

If im in a Christian atmosphere and have a exegetical bible study in a Church with a priest, im a atheist, not even agnostic. Am i using their knowledge, or am i gaining information to pass on to a Atheist community

The Atheist goes by these rules: Human rights

A christian goes by the ten commandments: [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments]Ten commandments[/url.

Amazing isn't it, atheists now have their own commandments, if you don't follow them commandments does that make you an agnostic or a religious person
I know atheists who don't follow that human rights article, what should I call the now dam it, thought I had it figured out

And the Ten Commandments were handed down to Israel, not to the Christians

That's just basic stuff you are getting wrong

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

I think you have human at a misconception, you want the Priest to break his vow to his employer, so you can take a new vow, cause you broke yours.. Somehow that seems human to you? Will you break the rules in your workplace cause someone else couldnt hold their end of the deal?

No that seems unethical to you, but the Priest, no you just want him and the church to stfu and just spray to words of love around..

You want to be married in a old culture, but you want it in a Victorian setting, and when it doesnt work you want the state to help/aid you?

Problem with most of the things in this world isnt its foundation its when people want to much freedom with no obligations..

originally posted by: corblimeyguvnor

OH OK, why did the Vicker / Priest / Imam / Whatever, turn us away because of our PARTNERS infidelity? i still can not get my head around this. We, my 2nd wife and I, did not cause the breakdown of our first relationships (may have contributed but not by screwing around). Why are we considered scumbags by the "church", not clean enough to marry within their bricks and mortar? serious question?

So was it a priest of the Catholic Church, they still frown on divorce
Some churches may consider people who divorce scumbags, that's not indicative of all churches and Christians though.
I know many Christians on a second marriage, sounds like the church you wanted to marry at was a little strange, guessing Catholic?
No one in the church is clean enough to go to church, especially Christians, that's why we go.
Christians forget that often.
Sorry

a reply to: Raggedyman

Do you go by the lawbook? Since its based on the basics of the ten commandments? Or do you need a Jew telling you, you cant rob a bank?

The ten commandments came a long way before they were handed down to Israel, but maybe its basic stuff im getting wrong`?

You know history lessons?

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

I think you have human at a misconception, you want the Priest to break his vow to his employer, so you can take a new vow, cause you broke yours.. Somehow that seems human to you? Will you break the rules in your workplace cause someone else couldnt hold their end of the deal?

No that seems unethical to you, but the Priest, no you just want him and the church to stfu and just spray to words of love around..

You want to be married in a old culture, but you want it in a Victorian setting, and when it doesnt work you want the state to help/aid you?

Problem with most of the things in this world isnt its foundation its when people want to much freedom with no obligations..

So priests sexually abuse children and that's ignored but they stand on not marrying a couple who are divorced, you sound like a Pharisee
Problem is it sounds like your church has forgotten they are filthy sinners who need salvation as much as the next man

There was a reason Jesus despised the religious

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

you want the Priest to break his vow to his employer

PROVE to me the Priest has an employer, prove to me, in a way that would stand up in a court of law, that this person is working for and being paid by a deity, someone i could legally litigate against .............. I'll await your response with interest


MODS: apologies, these tit for tat comments between me and another member has caused serious Thread Drift, please delete our irrelevant spat, apologies to OP

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: Raggedyman

Do you go by the lawbook? Since its based on the basics of the ten commandments? Or do you need a Jew telling you, you cant rob a bank?

The ten commandments came a long way before they were handed down to Israel, but maybe its basic stuff im getting wrong`?

You know history lessons?

Basic stuff scoop

Jesus asked us to follow just two commandments

Love God
Love each other

It won't help you, you love the laws more than people
That makes you a pharisee

a reply to: Raggedyman

It won't help you, you love the laws more than people That makes you a pharisee

Most people dont understand the meaning, its called the foundation of society.
But no, Essene..

a reply to: Raggedyman

Methodist if i recall, but hey ........ it was the best wedding ever (certainly after the ceremony), quoting guests comments there. Must admit, it was good and the only night / afternoon i remained sober so that i could remember it all ( additional comment, i was actually involved in the planning of the 2nd ..... i was seriously not allowed to be on the 1st, heads up un-married couples)

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

In court you just use two terms, religious freedom and liberty.. Under the Human rights law, so no it wont hold in court..
You could take the church to court, and you would lose since they dont have an obligation to marry you if its against the priests will if it collides with his beliefs.

This is your crusade no one elses. Human rights, ten commandments doesnt matter you lose in all cases. Dogma or basic human rights protects individuals from doing something they dont want, cause someone else has an ideal..