Germany Surveillance Scandal

The surveillance activities of the Bundesnachrichtendienst, the federal intelligence service of Germany, over U.S. agencies and other allies were more extensive than previously believed, a report Saturday by German magazine Der Spiegel said.

Full Article

Interesting turn of events. Angela was really peeved when Snowden revealed the NSA was tapping her phone. It just goes to show that surveillance isn't the exclusive domain of the US or UK.

The reports are an embarrassment for Chancellor Angela Merkel, who in 2013 harshly criticized the U.S. following the whistleblowing revelations of Edward Snowden and reports of the NSA's widespread surveillance -- including tapping her own phone. "Spying between friends, that's just not done," Merkel said at the time.

It would be great if we had a Snowden in France, Russia, China, Israel, Saudi and on and on.

I doubt this will ever change in my lifetime. These agencies just get better at their craft. I really don't care much if governments spy on each other. Maybe that's what it takes to keep them all calm.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Spying on the Vatican!

The Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's intelligence service, spied on the interior ministries of Poland, Austria, Denmark and Croatia, as well as U.S. agencies, the report said. The BND also monitored communications by diplomatic representations for the U.S., France, U.K., Sweden, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy, Austria, Switzerland and the Vatican.

God what a hypocrite! Is there anyway they could have been doing that and Merkel didn't know it?
hahaha

Who knows but I sort of think she didn't know the magnitude. She doesn't strike me as someone that's big on double-talk. I don't always agree with her but she seems a bit more honest than a lot of other politicians.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Governments spy on people and other governments. News at 11.

Merkel would just get the reports of what they knew, and not how they gained that information.

Why people need conspiracies

a reply to: rajas

Does that article include the security services? It seems that the motivation to record the doings of your own populations as well everyone else's is more in line with 'conspiracy theory' than someone crying foul over the moon landings or JFK.

Isn't their motivation predicated on a series of slippery slopes, what ifs and paranoia that others are out to get them?

The difference in the OPs points and your link is that the German security services have been carrying out surveillance on their own population. It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.

I'm on the fone and would otherwise drop some links from last year's court cases where the Germans admitted the surveillance and that they'd been in partnership (on some level) with UK GCHQ. IIRC Merkel was all bunched up because they hadn't let her know...

a reply to: Kandinsky

Are you surprised about the surveillance? I would be if there was no surveillance.. Maybe pointing fingers to something makes you look..

a reply to: rajas

Not surprised at all. We've found ourselves with a worldwide network of surveillance that's based on the 'conspiracy' that people in power cannot trust their electorate, their friends or their rivals and enemies.

If an individual took that view, we'd be pretty emphatic in saying they were paranoid and aggressive. When societies are run under such practices it seems fair and appropriate that people feel anxious and unhappy.

A loaded example: back in the middle ages it was common practice for the 'Crown' to torture people it suspected of mischief, heresy, madness or foreign nationality. They all did it. Yet here we are a few centuries later and what was once taken for granted is no longer legal or acceptable. Will this happen again in the future? Will the panopticon approach to democracy and security find itself condemned and outlawed in the future?

a reply to: Kandinsky

This world would look different if J.Edgar Hoover never existed...

It always existed, and it will always exist..

Just keeping our eye on the Vatican, on Germany, maybe Poland…

On Everyone.
We are tapping everyone's everything.
Because

Never again.

# 542

I feel sorry for whoever is assigned to my personal phone calls....they are so freaking boring and long winded that that poor guy must be rolling his eyes waiting for our calls to end because....seriously.....so boring it's unreal.

But yeah, I understand it's kinda a common thing for lines to be listened to.

I do hope she isn't mad and understands it's nothing personal.
It's not meant as a mean thing, just the kind of thing that listening agents do.

I'm sure they'd rather be playing golf, hanging out with friends and family or going surfing.
Wouldn't we all though?

So it goes.
*sigh*

On the bright side, at least it's not the Stazi....amirite?

originally posted by: rajas
a reply to: Kandinsky

This world would look different if J.Edgar Hoover never existed...

It always existed, and it will always exist..

The scary part is that technology keeps advancing and for every good cause, there's an evil one too. No matter who's in charge, there will always be a real or perceived threat that will justify surveillance.