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That won't fly because demolitions can be heard many miles away and in every WTC video, and there are many, none depict the sound of demolition explosions as the WTC buildings collapsed.
NIST: Questions and Answers
12. Was there enough gravitational energy present in the WTC towers to cause the collapse of the intact floors below the impact floors? Why weren’t the collapses of WTC 1 and WTC 2 arrested by the intact structure below the floors where columns first began to buckle?
Answer: Yes, there was more than enough gravitational load to cause the collapse of the floors below the level of collapse initiation in both WTC towers. The vertical capacity of the connections supporting an intact floor below the level of collapse was adequate to carry the load of 11 additional floors if the load was applied gradually and 6 additional floors if the load was applied suddenly (as was the case). Since the number of floors above the approximate floor of collapse initiation exceeded six in each WTC tower (12 floors in WTC 1 and 29 floors in WTC 2), the floors below the level of collapse initiation were unable to resist the suddenly applied gravitational load from the upper floors of the buildings.
Consider a typical floor immediately below the level of collapse initiation and conservatively assume that the floor is still supported on all columns (i.e., the columns below the intact floor did not buckle or peel off due to the failure of the columns above). Consider further the truss seat connections between the primary floor trusses and the exterior wall columns or core columns. The individual connection capacities ranged from 94,000 pounds to 395,000 pounds, with a total vertical load capacity for the connections on a typical floor of 29,000,000 pounds (see Section 5.2.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1-6C). The total floor area outside the core was approximately 31,000 square feet, and the average load on a floor under service conditions on Sept. 11, 2001, was 80 pounds per square foot. Thus, the total vertical load on a floor outside the core can be estimated by multiplying the floor area (31,000 square feet) by the gravitational load (80 pounds per square foot), which yields 2,500,000 pounds (this is a conservative load estimate since it ignores the weight contribution of the heavier mechanical floors at the top of each WTC tower). By dividing the total vertical connection capacity (29,000,000 pounds) of a floor by the total vertical load applied to the connections (2,500,000 pounds), the number of floors that can be supported by an intact floor is calculated to be a total of 12 floors or 11 additional floors.
This simplified and conservative analysis indicates that the floor connections could have carried only a maximum of about 11 additional floors if the load from these floors were applied statically. Even this number is (conservatively) high, since the load from above the collapsing floor is being applied suddenly. Since the dynamic amplification factor for a suddenly applied load is 2, an intact floor below the level of collapse initiation could not have supported more than six floors. Since the number of floors above the level where the collapse initiated exceeded six for both towers (12 for WTC 1 and 29 for WTC 2), neither tower could have arrested the progression of collapse once collapse initiated.
In reality, the highest intact floor was about three (WTC 2) to six (WTC 1) floors below the level of collapse initiation. Thus, more than the 12 to 29 floors reported above actually loaded the intact floor suddenly.
www.nist.gov...
FEMA
In addition to overloading the floors below, and potentially resulting in a pancake-type collapse of successive floors, local floor collapse would also immediately increase the laterally unsupported length of columns, permitting buckling to begin.
www.fema.gov...
Firefighters and others in the area have confirmed the floors did in fact, pancake because they could hear the floors slamming against one another.
So they can here explosions and think they were bombs but be wrong, but they hear the floors pancaking and be right..
a reply to: skyeagle409
Prove that the explosions were the result of demolition explosives. Exploding gas lines were also reported by firefighters as reported during an NBC News report, where a playback of that NBC News report was replayed last year.
Come on man, I can't prove anything and neither can you,...
vox has CIA ties
originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Informer1958
Seymour Hersh is very credible. Hersh has a history of exposing government corruption
Now, for the rest of the story.
The many problems with Seymour Hersh's Osama bin Laden conspiracy theory
Hersh's story is amazing to read, alleging a vast American-Pakistani conspiracy to stage the raid and even to fake high-level diplomatic incidents as a sort of cover. But his allegations are largely supported only by two sources, neither of whom has direct knowledge of what happened, both of whom are retired, and one of whom is anonymous. The story is riven with internal contradictions and inconsistencies.
The truth, Hersh says, is that Pakistani intelligence services captured bin Laden in 2006 and kept him locked up with support from Saudi Arabia, using him as leverage against al-Qaeda. In 2010, Pakistan agreed to sell bin Laden to the US for increased military aid and a "freer hand in Afghanistan." Rather than kill him or hand him over discreetly, Hersh says the Pakistanis insisted on staging an elaborate American "raid" with Pakistani support.
According to Hersh's story, Navy SEALs met no resistance at Abbottabad and were escorted by a Pakistani intelligence officer to bin Laden's bedroom, where they killed him. Bin Laden's body was "torn apart with rifle fire" and pieces of the corpse "tossed out over the Hindu Kush mountains" by Navy SEALs during the flight home (no reason is given for this action). There was no burial at sea because "there wouldn’t have been much left of bin Laden to put into the sea in any case."
www.vox.com...
haha good one
originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: HorusChrist
The CIA had nothing to do with 9/11
their patsy bin laden had worked with CIA in the 80s against Russia in Afghanistan en.wikipedia.org...
originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: HorusChrist
Sure is, and all you have to do is to prove me wrong.
their patsy bin laden had worked with CIA in the 80s against Russia in Afghanistan en.wikipedia.org...
Afghan Arabs
Afghan Arabs (also known as Arab-Afghans) were Arab and other Muslim Islamist mujahideen who came to Afghanistan during and following the Soviet-Afghan War to help fellow Muslims fight Soviets and pro-Soviet Afghans. Observers and journalists covering the war have cast doubt on their significance as a fighting force, but within the Muslim Arab world they achieved near hero-status for their association with the defeat of the militant atheist, anti-religious Communist superpower that was the Soviet Union.
Osama bin Laden used the thousands of fighters he recruited in 1988 to fight against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan bin Laden expanded his "jihad" or holy war. The goals of al-Qaida's jihad are to establish the rule of God on Earth, to cleanse Islam of depravity and to become martyrs to the cause. In 1998 al Qaida issued a statement claiming it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens including civilians.
www.webcitation.org... -03
Afghan Mujahideen
The Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen (also known as the Seven Party Mujahideen Alliance or Peshawar Seven) was an Afghan organization formed in May 1985 by the seven Afghanmujahideen parties fighting against the Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan forces in the Soviet-Afghan War. The alliance sought to function as a united diplomatic front towards the world opinion, and sought representation in the United Nations and Organisation of the Islamic Conference
www.airpower.au.af.mil...
that was a fake cover story whole time. USA supported extreme muslims because they were fighting the soviets. Govt hates leftwing socialism not terrorism.
originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: HorusChrist
their patsy bin laden had worked with CIA in the 80s against Russia in Afghanistan en.wikipedia.org...
That is false because Osama bin Laden was a member of the Afghan Arabs, a group of foreigners hostile toward the United States, and not supported by the CIA, because the CIA supported the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs.
9/11 conspiracy theorist didn't bother to do their homework to understand that the CIA never supported the Afghan Arabs.
Afghan Arabs
Afghan Arabs (also known as Arab-Afghans) were Arab and other Muslim Islamist mujahideen who came to Afghanistan during and following the Soviet-Afghan War to help fellow Muslims fight Soviets and pro-Soviet Afghans. Observers and journalists covering the war have cast doubt on their significance as a fighting force, but within the Muslim Arab world they achieved near hero-status for their association with the defeat of the militant atheist, anti-religious Communist superpower that was the Soviet Union.
Osama bin Laden used the thousands of fighters he recruited in 1988 to fight against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan bin Laden expanded his "jihad" or holy war. The goals of al-Qaida's jihad are to establish the rule of God on Earth, to cleanse Islam of depravity and to become martyrs to the cause. In 1998 al Qaida issued a statement claiming it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens including civilians.
www.webcitation.org... -03
Afghan Mujahideen
The Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen (also known as the Seven Party Mujahideen Alliance or Peshawar Seven) was an Afghan organization formed in May 1985 by the seven Afghanmujahideen parties fighting against the Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan forces in the Soviet-Afghan War. The alliance sought to function as a united diplomatic front towards the world opinion, and sought representation in the United Nations and Organisation of the Islamic Conference
www.airpower.au.af.mil...
In other words, 9/11 conspiracy theorist were unaware the CIA did not support the hostile Afghan Arabs nor were they aware of the differences between the two groups.
that was a fake cover story whole time. USA supported extreme muslims because they were fighting the soviets. Govt hates leftwing socialism not terrorism.
The Myth of CIA Support For Afghan Arabs
Bergen, Sept. 6, 2006: The story about bin Laden and the CIA — that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden — is simply a folk myth.
There’s no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn’t have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn’t have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently.
The U.S. covertly funded the Afghan fighters through Pakistan. So how does Bearden know the Pakistanis didn’t simply give some of the money to the Arabs, including bin Laden?
“They didn’t,” Bearden said. “We had ways to check where the money was going.” Milton Bearden, CIA station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, where he was responsible for the agency’s covert program in support of the Afghan resistance.
www.cnn.com...
The Myth the CIA Supported Osama bin Laden
Scholars and reporters have called the idea of CIA-backed Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) "nonsense", "sheer fantasy", and "simply a folk myth."
They argue that:
* with a quarter of a million local Afghans willing to fight there was no need to recruit foreigners unfamiliar with the local language, customs or lay of the land
* with several hundred million dollars a year in funding from non-American, Muslim sources, Arab Afghans themselves would have no need for American funds
* Americans could not train mujahideen because Pakistani officials would not allow more than a handful of U.S. agents to operate in Pakistan and none in Afghanistan;[9]
* the Afghan Arabs were militant Islamists, reflexively hostile to Westerners, and prone to threaten or attack Westerners even though they knew the Westerners were helping the mujahideen.
Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri says much the same thing in his book Knights Under the Prophet's Banner.
Bin Laden himself once said "the collapse of the Soviet Union ... goes to God and the mujahideen in Afghanistan ... the US had no mentionable role," but "collapse made the US more haughty and arrogant."
Sources;
Roy, Olivier, Globalized Islam : the Search for a New Ummah, by Olivier Roy, Columbia University Press, 2004, p.291-2
Sageman, Marc, Understanding Terror Networks by Marc Sageman, University of Pennsylvania Press, 2004, p.57-8
Messages to the World, 2006, p.50. (March 1997 interview with Peter Arnett
Peter Jouvenal quoted in Bergen, Peter, Holy War Inc. New York: Free Press, c2001., p.65
Bergen: Bin Laden, CIA links hogwash
www.cnn.com...
Steve Coll: I did not discover any evidence of direct contact between CIA officers and bin Laden during the 1980s, when they were working more or less in common cause against the Soviets. CIA officials, including Tenet, have denied under oath that such contact took place.
Marc Sageman, a Foreign Service Officer who was based in Islamabad from 1987–1989, and worked closely with Afghanistan's Mujahideen, argues that no American money went to the foreign volunteers.
Fox News reporter Richard Miniter wrote that in interviews with the two men who "oversaw the disbursement for all American funds to the anti-Soviet resistance, Bill Peikney - CIA station chief in Islamabad from 1984 to 1986 - and Milt Bearden - CIA station chief from 1986 to 1989 - he found,
Both flatly denied that any CIA funds ever went to bin Laden. They felt so strongly about this point that they agreed to go on the record, an unusual move by normally reticent intelligence officers. Mr. Peikney added in an e-mail to me: “I don’t even recall UBL [bin Laden] coming across my screen when I was there.
Scholars such as Jason Burke, Steve Coll, Peter Bergen, Christopher Andrew, and Vasily Mitrokhin have argued that Bin Laden was "outside of CIA eyesight" and that there is "no support" in any "reliable source" for "the claim that the CIA funded bin Laden or any of the other Arab volunteers who came to support the mujahideen.
Pakistani Brigadier Mohammad Yousaf, who ran ISI's Afghan operation between 1983 and 1987:
It was always galling to the Americans, and I can understand their point of view, that although they paid the piper they could not call the tune. The CIA supported the (Afghan) mujahideen by spending the taxpayers' money, billions of dollars of it over the years, on buying arms, ammunition, and equipment. It was their secret arms procurement branch that was kept busy. It was, however, a cardinal rule of Pakistan's policy that no Americans ever become involved with the distribution of funds or arms once they arrived in the country.
Holy War Inc. by Peter Bergen, New York: Free Press, c2001., p.66,
nsarchive.gwu.edu...
The following report was taken from your link.
Peter Bergen: CNN journalist
According to CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, The story about bin Laden and the CIA — that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden — is simply a folk myth.
There's no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn't have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn't have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. The real story here is the CIA did not understand who Osama was until 1996, when they set up a unit to really start tracking him.
www.cnn.com...
originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: HorusChrist
The following report was taken from your link.
Peter Bergen: CNN journalist
According to CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, The story about bin Laden and the CIA — that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden — is simply a folk myth.
There's no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn't have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn't have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. The real story here is the CIA did not understand who Osama was until 1996, when they set up a unit to really start tracking him.
www.cnn.com...