In an interesting twist, the FSA rejects help from Russia

One of the biggest areas of criticism Russia has come under in it's activities in Syria is the so called indiscriminate attacks on 'friendly' rebels who are fighting ISIS.

One of those major groups is the Free Syrian Army, or FSA. America has been hopping mad because it says that Russia has targeted them in raids. So, Russia steps up to the plate and offers to help them out.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Saturday that Russia was ready to help the rebels if they attacked militants from the Islamic State (IS) group.

There was a single condition made by Lavrov

In his offer to the FSA, Mr Lavrov said the Russian air force could support the FSA provided the US shared information about rebel positions

Seems to make logical sense. If you are not going to bomb them, you need to know where they are - there are so many rebel groups operating in Syria it's a bit difficult to tell from the air who is who. Obviously the Assad govt does not know where they are exactly, because they are an opposition force and are not talking with Assad at all.

So, personally, I'd think that the FSA would be like 'yeah, thanks I'd appreciate not being bombed and will work with you' but apparently not.

But on Sunday, an FSA spokesman told the BBC that Russia had no role in Syria.
"[Russian President] Vladimir Putin, is assisting a regime that indiscriminately kills their own people," Issam al-Reis said.
"How could we trust the Russians' help?"
Mr Issam said the FSA would continue fighting President Bashar al-Assad, who "was not part of the solution" to ending Syria's civil war.

So, Russia has come in to assist in restoring calm in a nation where over 1,000 militant groups are fighting and it has been criticized for not discriminating which rebel groups it targets. It then makes an offer to one of the darling groups of the USA coalition and gets rejected.

Clearly there is no agenda for peace among these rebels. Russia has a post war vision whereby Syria will be very different and believes that diplomacy is the way to solve the underlying problem when the bombs stop raining down and the shooting stops. It is supporting Assad, because he is still the legitimate leader of that nation and he controls the system of government for now

I find it astonishing that Russia has come in with a clear road map and everyone is rejecting it, preferring to keep on killing and keep on destroying what was a beautiful nation.

www.bbc.com...

a reply to: markosity1973

Reading the "offer" by Lavrov, it is quite obvious that he was making an offer they couldn't accept.

Think about this, if everyone is right and there is no difference between "moderate" rebels and ISIS ... then giving up positions, would provide this as an undeniable fact. By "denying" this, they are indirectly discriminating themselves, but they still have "plausible deniability".

a reply to: markosity1973

Clearly there is no agenda for peace among these rebels.

Peace? With a Tyrant like Bashar Al Assad???

The prick has been barrel bombing children for 3 years.



Time to go!!!

a reply to: markosity1973

I read this story earlier and I believe some of the background was mentioned on Webster Tarpley pod-cast in a interview with a Guy from Rome . According to the guy that was answering a question about Asauds visit to Moscow . The question was why and why now . The answer I will paraphrase and try to put it in order as best I can remember .

So when the whole thing started that was a attempted coup and Asaud couldn't leave the country until he got that under control . I suspect that the FSA were members that tried the coup and failed . Next the strategy changed into a civil war with the other groups moving in and Asaud had to take over the Military control . He couldn't leave to go anywhere until that was brought under control which is happening with Russia helping out .

They (Russia/Syria, and others want to get to the next level of control ,not only for Syria and Iraq but North Africa as well .It was at the meeting in Moscow that the steps were being taken to set this in motion . The FSA are only criminal or corrupted elements that were in the Syrian system .They know that and Russia/Syria knows that . That is why they refused a peaceful solution back in 2012 when it was offered .

The only relief in sight that I can see is if the suppliers or arms and amo stops .One thing is certain and that is that Russia and others are willing to go the distance either by hook or by bombs .

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Unlike the Americans who use drones and missiles to knock out hospitals and wedding parties . A bomb is a bomb but not all bombs are created equal and a barrel bomb is kind of a crude and bottom end of the grade I would think .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Well it is interesting, and very clever politicking by the Russians.

America says 'hey you're bombing the good rebels as well as the bad rebels'

Russia says 'Okay, we'll help this Free Syrian Army' you support, where are they?'

FSA says 'We don't want your help, you're supporting that monster Assad'

Obviously this puts FSA firmly back on the terrorist list against that the Assad govt has compiled and Russia can now say, 'well we offered to help them and they refused to join with us, so bombs away!'

ETA, here is a very interesting 'doco' put out by the Syrian Arab Army (Assad basically) It is obviously engineered to make Assad look squeaky clean, but it does reveal some very interesting facts that Gadaffi corroborates in before he was murdered - there was a third party coming in to agitate and cause major destabiliisation






*Edit*

The drug Gadaffi speaks of is a very real thing. I believe the Ts and Cs of ATS prevent me from sharing any information about it, but I have seen a doco about it and it does exist. ISIS fighters are using it and it turns them into ruthless killing machines with no conscience, just like Gadaffi talks about.

Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't if you're the FSA. Russia just branded you as "terrorists" no different than ISIS, and don't appear to be making an effort to discriminate in their targeting. And a couple of days later they want you to reveal your map coordinates... I don't blame them for being, erm, skeptical.

On the otherhand, Russia could well be making an honest effort to not bomb FSA position for the moment while they try to root out ISIS strongholds.

Savvy either way.

a reply to: markosity1973

It is becoming more obvious every day that passes .Washington has lost the narrative and Putin is making moves that they cant catch up with ...It seems that every day the western Narrative has to back peddle and reform their ducks . By then the game has moved and not in a negative way but in a way people can see what is really happening . There are so many waves to this story that is lapping at countries we could never of seen as being affected the way they are . Weather NATO or the EU ,Turkey and many other places are going to move on the side of Russia and not just covertly cheering but overtly because of the western caused crap affecting the whole place .

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: markosity1973

Clearly there is no agenda for peace among these rebels.

Peace? With a Tyrant like Bashar Al Assad???

The prick has been barrel bombing children for 3 years.



Time to go!!!

And killing Christians and gays by the rebels is any better?

Assad is no angel and yes. I even agree with you that he needs to go, but the alternative that the rebels offer is even worse.

Backing Assad is backing the best of the worst but in order to win the war and return to peace someone needs support. Assad is the logical choice because he also holds the keys to the system of government and from there an orderly transition to a new leader and / or system can be made.

Russia - We will help the rebels, just tell us where they are

US - ermm, no, we are not giving you targets to bomb

Russia - See, US is unwilling to work

a reply to: markosity1973

By now we are safe to assume that there are dirty people operating in most Govt's around the world .Inside the US it's called the deep state and they think nothing to torturing and that is well documented . The CIA had and has places all over the world and I am thinking they even had some of those types of operations in Syria /Lybia / Iraq . Canada turned one of it's citizens over to the CIA who flew him to Syria to be tortured . I don't believe that Assaud was the go to guy but it could have been a cell that is with the FSA now . It's the only thing that makes sense to me ...

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
It is becoming more obvious every day that passes .Washington has lost the narrative and Putin is making moves that they cant catch up with ...

Oh, the US's foreign policy is amateur hour. I don't think the administration even wanted to be in Syria. They got caught up with Arab Spring Fever and figured the arsenal of democracy had to do something when asked or they'd be on the outside looking in when things resolved. Instead they weakened Assad just enough to allow a multi-faction free for all, and oh, by the way ISIS is a giant pain in the ass in Iraq where they are committed to some degree as well.

Putin has already done the math. He's a pro. He's there at the bequest of the government in situ. He's not afraid to shed blood or look heavy-handed, because he knows most of the world respects heavy-handedness (I'm not suggesting it is right, only that it's true). He's got the will, and the West doesn't. That's why Russia has the initiative. They can give the finger to Obama on just about all of the particulars and know that at the end of the day, all we will do is bark. And I don't doubt for a second that he enjoys embarrassing the West a bit while he secures his strategic role in the Middle East.

originally posted by: Vector99
Russia - We will help the rebels, just tell us where they are

US - ermm, no, we are not giving you targets to bomb

Russia - See, US is unwilling to work

Well actually, this is the second time Russia has offered to help out US backed rebels.

In the thread below, Putin lashes out in rather amusing style because the USA refuses to even tell them who the rebel groups they support are and where they might be

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So Lavrov has had a second attempt and offered to support the FSA because it is the #1 rebel group the USA believes in apparently. But the FSA themselves this time have said 'thanks, but no thanks'

Believe it or not, I think Russia was actually being genuine here, using the old 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' philosiphy' in that they both have a common agenda - to quash ISIS.

Somewhere I read that Nusra Front leaders were talking with ISIS to make one force meaning Nusra joins the ISIS. This means FSA will not be far behind in joining the cousins.

The main issue in Syrian civil war is that instigators US, Saudi, Qatar and UAE stop supplying weapons to FSA to topple Assad. By now, after Egypt, Libya, Iraq, the world knows that Secular Dictatorship is 4x a better solution than Muslim Brotherhood controlled behind the scene by AQ and FSA.

2003 US invaded Iraq thinking it will topple Saddam and it replace him with democracy following free market principles. Given the high riches from oil, Iraq with democracy would have become a glittering example to others in ME to follow.

However, from Iraq alone the US should have learned that internal variables in ME countries are more complicated and for people of these countries to take the Democratic system and implement it is not easily possible.

US should butt out of trying to change regimes in ME and other places. It only brings destruction and traumatic events on common vulnerable people.

Harvard and Stanford educated and Goldman Sachs experienced top gun policy makers cannot play with the lives of common folks and instigate civil wars around the world.

Well of course the FSA couldn't accept the deal. Even if Russia didn't use the intel to bomb rebel targets, don't you think they'd pass that info along to Assad?

a reply to: Bone75

This is where the diplomatic solution that Russia proposes comes in. FSA and Assad would hammer out a 'non conflcit' agreement then start negotiating a post war Syria.

For Syria to be put back together again, groups like FSA will need to sit down and talk instead of shoot eventually. No single group is going to win this war by themselves. Look at Assad; he already has a growing alliance helping him out for instance.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

 A bomb is a bomb.

Depends if your dropping or catching, you would think.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Bone75

This is where the diplomatic solution that Russia proposes comes in. FSA and Assad would hammer out a 'non conflcit' agreement then start negotiating a post war Syria.

For Syria to be put back together again, groups like FSA will need to sit down and talk instead of shoot eventually. No single group is going to win this war by themselves. Look at Assad; he already has a growing alliance helping him out for instance.

I agree with this, but Assad has done very little in the way of concessions other than "talk" in the past few decades. Both parties have to be willing to come to an agreement.

originally posted by: RadioRobert

I agree with this, but Assad has done very little in the way of concessions other than "talk" in the past few decades. Both parties have to be willing to come to an agreement.

Well he did give up his chemical weapons after someone (cough cough) gassed a bunch of civilians.

It's like a triangle of Shia powerbase, their only base. From Hezbollah in Lebanon, east to Iran's border adjacent to Tehran, back southwest to Baghdad, the declared capital of the caliphate.

In the heart of this triangle is a Sunni wasteland. No offense, but it's become a pocket with a few Sunni groups, regardless of the FSA, operating openly.

It seem clear Russia is pro-Shia, in the sense their campaign is almost a Orthodox Crusade to avenge atrocities against Christians.

So, if this is Putin's position, rest assured the US govt is 180 degrees the opposite. Although, the US administrations left Baghdad to Malaki, a Shia, and on some level is "ok" with Iran. So maybe the 180 degree hypothesis is wrong.

It sort of makes sense to think the Sunni from Northern Iraq, eastern Syria, are "abandoned" by all except the Gulf States. Saudis have been out on a limb in regards to the USA as recent.